Fraudsters are stealing from all of us and Virto!!!!

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Topic created : 28.05.2010, 08:36

Honorchamp

There are several players cheating and stealing from the game and from the other legitimate players registering clone accounts to steal the Virts from other players by entering contests etc a 2nd time. Other thigns are happening too that I will not mention. Even several high level players. This is very obviously happening on a number of occasions. These players need to be permenantly banned or the integrity of this game as a whole is in the toilet.

Anyone noticing this, do not post the names here but let me know via email in game your evidence and or let the admins know. These players are nothing but cheap petty honorless criminals who are stealing from all of us. We need to weed them out and have their Ips banned for good. We also need to have them charged with theft and fraud.

Admins, what is your policy about protecting the game, the community, and other players from these kinds of pathetic lifeless moralless fraudsters? We should also have a wall of shame that links their personal details and facebook address so that anyone searching these people online will come up with this information how they steal from other people. This is a MUST for basic justice. These people are STEALING it is theft and a CRIME. Their local authorities should also be notified and their personal information and names and address etc passed on to their local police so they can be prosecuted. This is a SERIOUS matter and the community needs to be protected.

We need to take a stand against these SCUM OF THE EARTH lowlifes. It is NOT acceptable to let people steal and get away with it.

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30.05.2010, 08:29

Honorchamp

Deira
Honorchamp, please, do all of us a big favor and quit this game, its not for you.
Its too complicated for you and you simply cant understand written text, and you get to the wrong conclusions.
You blame everybody else, but yourself for your failures, you cant face your mistakes, missteps and always complaining about everything.

Probably Farmville or the like would be a suitable game for you, that kind of games probably have a very easy to understand rules, that even you can gasp it, and there you can be successfull and then you dont have to blame the whole world because of your failures.

Deira

Deira, I will not quit this game that I love, nor should I have to. Your meager reaction only to sink down to the low level of insulting someone and mocking them only shows a lack of personal character on your part. You can lie that I blame blame someone else for my failures or cant face mistakes but these comments are simply nothing more then pathetic lies by you. You show your true colors. Your comments have got to be the only low down dispicable comments yet on the entire forum, please let them be the last too.

I have not made mistakes as i was not informed there was an issue. Had I not followed instructions there could be a mistake, since there are no instructions, warnings, nor solid guidance in the game, there are no mistakes that can be made that I have made. I have followed any instructions I have recieved from helpful non-insulting, lying players like you, to a T and have benefitted from it. I have never mentioned any mistakes I have made forgetting that advice which has been rare. I have made many complaints yes as I have dealt with some FAIR frustration from the unrealistic pitfalls everyone knows are in this game. I will advocate for their change on an ongoing basis. Maybe you should start trying to make the game better too, instead of smearing up the forums with nothing more then insults and lies about someone. Pretty sad Deira.

Two thumbs down.

Also, this game is obviously VERY for me when even through the challenges I have risen into the top 100 in assets in only one month, and top 40 in turnover. I have countless pluses on the forums and many people wh ohave written to thank me for help. One day maybe Ill take you out Deira. I love beating people who are just lying low down mean nasty people. If that's who want to continue being then I will have a new goal.

You also speak about cloning being wrong and unfair, then admit two weeks ago you had a clone account. Nice contradiction. At least you finished with the right decision, I applaud that.

Cloning is wrong because you are stealing money from Virto. When you clone to give yourself more capacity, you steal the points $ from Virto you are supposed to use to BUY up your levels instead. When you clone to enter contests or tenders, or other activities, you are Stealing from Virto and other players. It is THEFT, pure and simple.

If this has been an honest mistake by some, fine, that is acceptable, but it needs to be enforced as I can see plain as day people getting ripped off, I have evidence on some players too. Rock solid evidence.

30.05.2010, 08:49

Honorchamp

You can find the games rules here :

http://virtonomics.com/mary/main/law/main_law ...

I would suggest everyone read them.

Here is the games stance on NO CLONING.
# Jobbery (profiteering) in game are considered to be operations of any kind, bound up with ungrounded or illegal gaining of cash funds, material or non-material assets, securities or other values, taken by players, companies or particular enterprises, caused by errors in game resources operation, by collusion or by certain actions of affiliated persons (including game characters, controlled by one player (clones)) that could be defined as collusion, as well as other actions, going against general game maxims, with the purpose of unjustified enrichment or other profit (including illegally obtained payment capabilities).
8.1. It is prohibited by the competition rules, expressly or by implication, encouraging players to create clones. All the competitions must be directed toward basic accounts. It is strongly prohibited to pass over the companies of competitors to the competition’s organizers or affiliated persons.
6.2. The companies are prohibited to sell assets at the price less than 70% of assets assessed value, at the price higher than 300% of assessed subdivision value, as well as at the price higher than 50% of total value of company’s assets;

People are breaking this rule as well:
6.1. During the first week after registration (up to the end of 8th update game situation) the companies are prohibited to sell subdivisions;

The responsibility for jobbery is to be imposed on a player, who had carried out all these illegal actions or had provoked by his actions the situation, which encouraged other players for illegal activity, or who is an accomplice or a benefit getter as result of illegal activity, in the presence of obvious intent and on condition that he had an opportunity to avoid or to resist this illegal activity.

# The list of prohibited operations include:

2.1. Any kind of game points resale. (there are people spamming the servers with offers to buy or sell points)

2.2. Operations with any assets and cash resources, obtained as result of new players registration, in form of gratuitous transfer or non-equal exchange, including making bargains at prices or on conditions, which are knowingly non-market, with the purpose of transfer of cash resources or other values, gained by other players as result of registration.

"No man who practices deceit shall dwell in my house; no man who utters lies shall continue in my presence."
Psalm 101.7

30.05.2010, 09:49

Honorchamp

casperb
I admit i have a clone first it was to start up now it is to give my stores two departements of goods. This because else my qualification is not sufficient. I have to tell you it's a big hassle to keep both companies doing great. I know it's isn't very etical for the game but it is very real life based ( as you are claming you want all the time ).

This is wrong unethical, totally against the game rules, unfair to other players, stealing $ from virto instead of you buying up your quals. It isnt unrealistic as anti-trust laws do exist in real life and so do price fixing laws and others. P and G is an incorrect example as they have to abide by these laws but you are breaking them by cloning. In real life P and G doesnt have qual limitations limiting their growth which they then break those laws and clone etc to get around it. Your example doesnt work. You are breaking laws that Pand G is not breaking (and doesnt have)

Close up your clone and do the right thing, buy some points and support the game.

30.05.2010, 10:00

Honorchamp

P.s. I dont clone and buy up when I get in a qual limit jam. I have bought so far $20 + $5 +$5 as without buying up I was stuck in bankruptcy due to the no instructions in the game and very severe limits early on which I am against. I like having more freedom for noobs and more freedom in general, but I am against breaking the rules if they are there. I will rant and rave to get some action on change, but I wont break the rules.

30.05.2010, 11:13

Company 2.0

Honorchamp
# Jobbery (profiteering) in game are considered to be operations of any kind, bound up with ungrounded or illegal gaining of cash funds, material or non-material assets, securities or other values, taken by players, companies or particular enterprises, caused by errors in game resources operation, by collusion or by certain actions of affiliated persons (including game characters, controlled by one player (clones)) that could be defined as collusion, as well as other actions, going against general game maxims, with the purpose of unjustified enrichment or other profit (including illegally obtained payment capabilities).

You are taking this highlighted point totally out of context. It makes no mention here of clones being illegal. What it says is that any unfair gains are illegal - including cases in which both parties are controlled by the same player.

@ChrisBerlin82 - How do people circumvent the qualification requirements using clones? New companies start with qualifications at 1.

30.05.2010, 14:24

casperb

YOUR ONLY REVEILING YOURSELF !!!

Your saying people are cheating in the contest. What about the contest of directors which your in with one of my companies ?

Participant Status Company Assets
1. Honorchamp Chief executive Start: 19 April 2010 Christian Company LLC, Cayman Islands Company 11 550 968 043.52$
2. m3ali_AlbAsHa Chief executive Start: 21 April 2010 DeSeRt_RoSe inc. Company 1 071 856 540.40$
3. casperb General manager Start: 19 April 2010 POWER Agricultural Association 646 252 052.72$

WHO IS CHEATING, tell me who is the number one, stealing the VIRTS by spending money from some outside real life moron sugar uncle to grow it's qualification. IT'S YOU.

What happened in your life, which made you this way, i hope for you your young and can maby change the way you behave.

30.05.2010, 14:36

ChrisBerlin82

@ChrisBerlin82 - How do people circumvent the qualification requirements using clones? New companies start with qualifications at 1.

Well, "your" qualification grows at a maximum rate of X which is easily achievable if you keep your subdivisions at 100% efficiency. If you have 9 clones in addition to your company "your" qualificaiton will grow at a speed of 10*X by keeping your subdivisions at 100% efficiency thus allowing you to build a lot more subdivisions in much shorter time (just not with one company).

It's the same as buying game points to buy qualification, just that it doesn't cost money and is definitely to be considered cheating that should be punished.

Clones would also allow easy cheating in any raw material based or similar contests where a high revenue is your main goal. I will not continue to explain in detail, as I don't want to promote using clones.

31.05.2010, 06:35

Honorchamp

Well, Lets face it, over 50%-100% of the top 30 players are using clones. it doesnt seem the admins are doing anything about it or are interested so far in taking a stand against it at this time. This pretty much means cloning is a part of the game for everyone and open to everyone. If it is not officially illegal, then its officially legal. Im still waiting on clarification from the devs.

1.06.2010, 03:17. Subject: Hate to say it.

ArxCorvus

Honorchamp is correct in the fact that it is ethically wrong to have clones.

Clones DO effect the outcome of a contest as in the effect that it takes up a spot in that particular contest. Which could be used for a player without any clones.

Since the Clone is of another account that clone is not in breach of the rules for IT HAS A base account.

What is illigal is the transport of Virts from the Clone account to another Account of the of the same controling person.

# 8With the purpose of limitation of jobbery possibility by means of competition managing, the following restrictions are to be imposed:

8.1. It is prohibited by the competition rules, expressly or by implication, encouraging players to create clones

explanation" you shall not encourage people to create clones. Doesn't say you can't create them. just don't go blabbing to other about it.

All the competitions must be directed toward basic accounts. It is strongly prohibited to pass over the companies of competitors to the competition’s organizers or affiliated persons.

Explanation " If you have a clone account, the winnings if any, will be directed to THE CLONES basic account. Which would happen anyway if any other person entered into the contest. if you win you get the Virts. No matter if you own several accounts. the different accounts would then have different Virt amounts. What is illegal is the transfer of Virt's between these accounts.

8.2. There must be no restrictions on real money investment in competition rules. Exceptions can be only under special permission of Management and only for certain competitive nominations.

Explanation- If you pay into this game you get perks. Certain contest allow it other's do not ITS UP TO ADMIN TO DECIDE.

8.3. Management has the right to impose a fine and to block both organizers of competitions which are in conflict with basic law of the game, and competitors.

explanation-" if you rig a contest or competition; your done for."

i have been following this but please tell me if i am wrong in this somewhere. just trying to help.

In this instance Both parties are right.

Honorchamp for the protesting of Clones and having admin impose fines for having clones.

WarFreak for the defence of having Clones and Working within the Laws of the land.

"If your smart enough to Use the system for your own advantage, good for you. If your smart enough to follow the rules of the system, good for you too for being honest. Yet, if your Dumb enough to get caught using and abusing the system, then you deserve to be caught."- Me I said this.

1.06.2010, 03:28

ArxCorvus

Honorchamp
Well, Lets face it, over 50%-100% of the top 30 players are using clones. it doesnt seem the admins are doing anything about it or are interested so far in taking a stand against it at this time. This pretty much means cloning is a part of the game for everyone and open to everyone. If it is not officially illegal, then its officially legal. Im still waiting on clarification from the devs.

nothing is illegal until you get caught!

1.06.2010, 04:19

Last time edited : 1.06.2010, 04:20

ChrisBerlin82

I hope you don't live by this rule in real life So-so

Also you left the most important rule about clones out...

1. Jobbery (profiteering) in game are considered to be operations of any kind, bound up with ungrounded or illegal gaining of cash funds, material or non-material assets, securities or other values, taken by players, companies or particular enterprises, caused by errors in game resources operation, by collusion or by certain actions of affiliated persons (including game characters, controlled by one player (clones)) that could be defined as collusion, as well as other actions, going against general game maxims, with the purpose of unjustified enrichment or other profit (including illegally obtained payment capabilities).

This rule essentially prohibits jobbery.
The rule also defines that it counts towards material AND non-material assets.
The rule defines that collusion is jobbery and prohibited.
The rule further defines that collusion includes several companies controlled by one player (clones).

According to the 1. rule of the game rules the usage of clones is not allowed. I don't think the interpretation is arguably. It is arguably however whether any admin ever read and understood this rule or if it was translated by Google Translator "who" messed it up I roll!

2.06.2010, 02:15. Subject: Hand in Hand in Hand in Hand in Hand......

ArxCorvus

ChrisBerlin82
I hope you don't live by this rule in real life

Also you left the most important rule about clones out...

1. Jobbery (profiteering) in game are considered to be operations of any kind, bound up with ungrounded or illegal gaining of cash funds, material or non-material assets, securities or other values, taken by players, companies or particular enterprises, caused by errors in game resources operation, by collusion or by certain actions of affiliated persons (including game characters, controlled by one player (clones)) that could be defined as collusion, as well as other actions, going against general game maxims, with the purpose of unjustified enrichment or other profit (including illegally obtained payment capabilities).

This rule essentially prohibits jobbery.
The rule also defines that it counts towards material AND non-material assets.
The rule defines that collusion is jobbery and prohibited.
The rule further defines that collusion includes several companies controlled by one player (clones).

According to the 1. rule of the game rules the usage of clones is not allowed. I don't think the interpretation is arguably. It is arguably however whether any admin ever read and understood this rule or if it was translated by Google Translator "who" messed it up

i would have to agree Cheerfully

2.06.2010, 04:57

Deira

I just noticed your post Honorchamp where you praise me :-)))

Here is a few things that comes to my mind:

I just noticed that you removed your signature with the so called "bugs" which bankrupted you a few times. All of those "bugs" were explained that they are intended features in the game and works as they should.
In short you screwed up and you blamed the game. And the problem with it is not the screw up part - it can happen to anybody - , but the blame part.
And now you try to hide it. Nice one.

You says you have countless plusses in the forums. Well good for you, nice feat. Keep it up.
Like that more people want you to quit this game, than to stay. This must be the case because you are nice and friendly, and thats why you must be getting the lots of plusses.

Seems like you have some problem with the meaning of the word "contradiction"

I used to have a clone, I never make it a secret, why should I? It is allowed, and I tried it and then decided that I use it no more, because I felt that way. Where is the contradiction in it in your meaning?
Like I used to have an alcohol factory, but then decided to not producing alcohol any more. Because I felt it that way.

Cloning is wrong because you are stealing money from Virto. At least thats what you say. Well, its mostly not true, because no matter whether a clone wins a contest/tender or a regular player, the VIRTS and points circulation inside Virtonomics is the same in both cases. So it doesnt matter who win.
Thats an other matter that if a clone wins because that means not the real new players win, and it will be harder for them to develop, but its a game balance and design issue and NOT theft.

And you are right that its not a nice thing if a clone wins, because it usually have serious advantages with the other
contestants, but as long as cloning is allowed, deal with it, or voice your concern in a normal, friendly way, but dont rant about scums and thefts and stealing and so, because its not those things.

And about your cloning evidence. Well as far as I see you mentioned three peoples, Khoi, casper, and me

I dont know whether Khoi is cloning - and honestly I dont care, but what you presented as evidence - turnover increase - turned out flat out bullshit on your part, and you rather shouted it in the forums that he is cloning, instead of talking with him, or trying to find out what happend.
Both casper and me made it no secret our stance and usage of clones.

And your claims to me that you looked at my numbers and those are not adding up, and thats your evidence of me cloning, well, that only means that you cant properly add up numbers.

It would be good if you dont pretend to be some kind of authority who collects evidences, who knows everything, and who can decide who is cloning or not, and gives a verdict when see fit.

You are a regular player, not one who makes the rules. The game is not working - and not supposed to work - the way you want it, it works as the creators want it. Whether its good or not.
Keep this in mind that.

2.06.2010, 06:57

Company 2.0

ChrisBerlin82
Also you left the most important rule about clones out...

1. Jobbery (profiteering) in game are considered to be operations of any kind, bound up with ungrounded or illegal gaining of cash funds, material or non-material assets, securities or other values, taken by players, companies or particular enterprises, caused by errors in game resources operation, by collusion or by certain actions of affiliated persons (including game characters, controlled by one player (clones)) that could be defined as collusion, as well as other actions, going against general game maxims, with the purpose of unjustified enrichment or other profit (including illegally obtained payment capabilities).

This rule essentially prohibits jobbery.
The rule also defines that it counts towards material AND non-material assets.
The rule defines that collusion is jobbery and prohibited.
The rule further defines that collusion includes several companies controlled by one player (clones).

According to the 1. rule of the game rules the usage of clones is not allowed.

The main game law is not about cloning. It is about unfairly gaining assets or advantage.
It says collusion is illegal but only mentions clones as an aside to close a possible loophole. The only mention of clones in the main law is "including game characters, controlled by one player (clones)".
If the law was about clones it would not need to include them.

2.06.2010, 20:48

Last time edited : 2.06.2010, 20:48

ChrisBerlin82

Well as I said...

This rule essentially prohibits jobbery

...and through several inclusions, this ALSO includes the usage of clones. I don't care what admins say anywhere on the forums. The written game rules stand as they are and they are clear in my opinion. If what they say is wrong, the admins need to amend the rules.

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