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Topic:
  

Topic created : 27.04.2016, 17:32

Last time edited : 5.05.2016, 17:48
Jayman
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How producing below average quality products effects qualification growth
Cowsheds (500 workers each at Q9.20, Tech 16)
Qualification growth
1 cowshed, above average quality (15.48 vs 9.37)
0.13%
1 cowshed, below average quality (7.90 vs 9.36)
0.01%
2 cowsheds (1 above avg Q, 1 below avg Q) (11.69 vs 9.45)
0.14%

Conclusion: The amount a particular subdivision contributes to qualification growth is much less (10% of normal amount) when it produces below average quality products but it does not appear to harm overall qualification growth.
 

Whether it makes a difference if average quality is above or below realm average
Cowsheds (500 workers each at Q9.20, Tech 16)
Qualification growth
2 cowsheds (1 @ Q7.9, 1 @ Q15.48) above average quality (11.69 vs 9.36)
0.14%
2 cowsheds (1 @ Q8.3, 1 @ Q10.64) below average quality (9.47 vs 9.50)
0.14%

Conclusion: It does not make any difference whether average quality is above or below the realm average.
 
Just to confirm
2 cowsheds (1 @ Q1/Tech 1, 1 @ Q15.48) above average quality (10.90 vs 9.50)
0.17%
2 cowsheds (1 @ Q1/Tech 1, 1 @ Q11.17) below average quality (7.99 vs 9.51)
0.17%

Conclusion: It does not make any difference whether average quality is above or below the realm average.   

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28.04.2016, 08:20

Last time edited : 28.04.2016, 10:33
Gendalf04
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Jayman, what is the difference between 1st and 3rd scenario? Was Top3 maximized in both of them? While both of them having above average quality, why there is difference in qual.growth?
 
I don’t see the 100th part in qual. growth, so I assume you are deducting the difference between the actual growth with previous update? Is that right?
 
I tested the 4th scenario myself and didn’t noticed the difference. But I didn’t look at 100th part of qual. growth and the testing unit’s output was relatively low compared to total output. So that could have played a part. It will be interesting to see your results.
 
Separately, it would be interesting if you tested the factories where two products are produced simultaneously. How the system calculates those ones? Is it one “main” product and the “byproduct” has lesser/none influence. Or is it shared based on output quantity when comparing to the realm average.
For ex. Soy-bean factory. A good animal feed quality could be achieved, but the “byproduct” butter would have uncompetitive quality, as in specialized factory a greater quality would be achieved. 
 

28.04.2016, 19:11

Last time edited : 28.04.2016, 19:12
Jayman
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Gendalf04
Jayman, what is the difference between 1st and 3rd scenario? Was Top3 maximized in both of them? While both of them having above average quality, why there is difference in qual.growth?

The 3rd scenario had 4 cowsheds running instead of 2. The first two with above average quality contributed 0.26% and the other 2 with below average quality contributed 0.03% for a total of 0.29%. Top3 was kept far below the max because I read the penalty for not paying points applies to max growth.
 
I don’t see the 100th part in qual. growth, so I assume you are deducting the difference between the actual growth with previous update? Is that right?

Yes. It's hard to get accurate results relying on tenths when growth is less than 0.1%. 
 

28.04.2016, 22:00
XiozZe
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I'm afraid, Jeka, that this new rule (if I understand correctly) does not solve your apiary problem. Let me have a try at the meaning of the message, and then you can determine whether my interpretation of the google translate interpretation is correct.
 
At this moment: you receive a penalty if you produce less then the realm average.
 
Google translate
Формула "теоретически достижимого": 8х(Квалификация без бонусов)^(1.3/3).
-->
Formula "theoretically achievable": 8x (without qualification bonuses) ^ (1.3 / 3).

After the update: you receive a penalty if you produce less then the realm average AND you produce less then this formula above. So if you have a livestock qualification of 22, you have to produce honey with a quality of at least 4.13 (current realm average, Mary) or a quality of at least 30.54 (formula). For low realm averages, this formula will change nothing. For high realm averages, this reduces the quality you need to produce at to avoid the penalty.
 
For me, the value from the formula is 37.80 (production qualification: 36). So I guess I can now start to produce ... bedroom furniture (realm average quality: 51.74) I guess? Not much I can benefit from this new rule.
 
On Vera things are a different matter though. Average baseball caps quality: 80, bedroom furniture: 114. The moment the penalty starts to kick in (lvl 20?) this could really hurt players on the Vera realm, as they would never be able to produce such high qualities. For us here on Mary, not a lot of change. I mean, check animal farms. No way we are ever going to benefit from that rule if the average egg quality is 11.50. So this will maybe open up some paths for people on Vera for certain products, however, here on Mary there is not a lot of change.
 
But this story is only true of course if google translate didn't mess up. Jeka, does my story make sense reading the Russian? 
 

29.04.2016, 03:09

Last time edited : 30.04.2016, 08:28
Gendalf04
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So new players on Vera will benefit a lot by the new formula.
On Lien, easing effect will be felt in products where there is considerable bonuses exist (specialized factories, villa, region bonuses).
For ex. realm average for bedroom furniture is 56+. So it means now you don't have to beat it even when you have qual. at 90.
Great, electorate of Virtonomics are making gains.
 
PS. Guys, does the picture shows up in your browser? Firefox and Opera is showing up in mine, but chrome and safari isn't. 
 

3.05.2016, 23:13

Last time edited : 3.05.2016, 23:14
jeka_igla
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XiozZe - i deleted my message cuz this is not yet confirmed. I'll make the official announcement if they make it in Russian. Now this is too unclear. I didn't understand it myself so i am not gonna make any assumptions.
 
All i know is that currently the penalty is unfair. I had +8% growth with 280 cow farms and then i build 10 apiaries so my growth dropped to +4%. This is totally unfair system we have now but i am not gonna go into details
 
Lucky for people who are in Lien and Mary av Q is quite low and for you guys it is not that big of a problem but in Vera av Q is 40-60 (sometimes 80-100+) so with qualification 20-30 it is impossible to produce higher then Av. Hope this new update will partly fix it.
 
Anyway now the rule is: if you want to have perfect growth of production/livestock you should produce all goods with Q > av. Even if you produce 2-3 things with lower Q, this will reduce your growth by crazy amount
 
Jayman - thank you for the testing and data 
 

5.05.2016, 19:00

Last time edited : 7.05.2016, 07:07
jeka_igla
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http://virtonomics.com/mary/forum/forum_new/11/topic/102484/view/page:3 ...
 
Small changes for producing quality below realm's average which slows down qualification growth.
 
Now this penalty does not apply in case realm's average quality is higher quality than "theoretically possible".
 
Formula for "theoretically possible" (TP) quality:  8х(Top manager's qualification without bonuses)^(1.3/3).
 
Clarification:
- If you produce goods with quality higher than average* you get no growth penalty
- If you produce goods with quality lower than average but this quality is higher then TP, you get no growth penalty
- If you produce goods with quality lower than average and this quality is lower then TP, you get a growth penalty
 
*average = average quality in the realm
 
This applies to production, livestock, etc. 
 

5.05.2016, 22:51

Last time edited : 6.05.2016, 04:03
Mike1
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when will this be implemented?
 
Please show a calculation sample here/ how to type this into a simple calculator with qualification of 50, thanks.
 
Most perfectly, the TP quality is shown on the top manager page (*persondata/knowledge) by the system. 
 

6.05.2016, 04:12

Last time edited : 6.05.2016, 04:17
Gendalf04
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Kuku Industries
 
Jayman

Conclusion: It does not make any difference whether average quality is above or below the realm average.
That is strange. On which realm did you test it? From my experience with sheep farms, producing below realm average completely cuts off the qual. growth. 
 

6.05.2016, 04:24

Last time edited : 6.05.2016, 05:52
jeka_igla
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hen will this be implemented?
 
Please show a calculation sample here/ how to type this into a simple calculator with qualification of 50, thanks.
 
Most perfectly, the TP quality is shown on the top manager page (*persondata/knowledge) by the system.
It is already implemented.
 
Here is how i understood it:
 
We take the formula and put 50 there
 
8х(Top manager's qualification without bonuses)^(1.3/3).

TP: 8*50^0.43 = 43.01
 
So how it works? Let's say that average quality for cheese in Mary is 50.
 
Case 1.
You make cheese quality of 25. It is below TP and it is below the average.
You get the same old penalty to growth speed as you'd have with the old mechanic
 
Case 2.
You make cheese quality of 55. It is above TP and it is above the average.
You don't get any growth speed penalties.
 
These two case are the same as it used to be. Now the next case is where this feature apples
 
Case 3.
You make cheese quality of 45. It is above TP but it is below the average. With old system you would get a growth speed penalty but now, because it is kinda "theoretically impossible" for your current qualification to produce quality above the realm's average the system will only check if the quality is higher than TP. If it is, you are good to go (you won't have this penalty). 
 

6.05.2016, 05:07
Gendalf04
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jeka_igla

 
8х(Top manager's qualification without bonuses)^(1.3/3).

TP: (8*50)^0.43 = 400^0.43 = 13.14
 
Jeka, at the top formula there are no brackets that you voluntarily added in yours. So ab comes first.
 
For Q 50 it will be 8*500.43=43.01 
 

6.05.2016, 05:24

Last time edited : 6.05.2016, 05:30
jeka_igla
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lol, thanks
 
I corrected my post 
 

6.05.2016, 13:40
G_Money33
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[+] Put away the calculator[-] Put away the calculator
 
 

6.05.2016, 15:21

Last time edited : 6.05.2016, 15:24
Mike1
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Jeka, what about mining, sawmills, agricultural farms, fishing bases?
 
These units all cost hard cash but suffer ginormously from growth penalties. Additionally, its technically impossible to make quality higher than 20 something even with tech as high as 30).
 
Since these units are for real cash, with quality penalty AND Top1+3 penalties, these state enterprises are the most ungrateful investments in the game as it literally requires hundreds of USD to achieve good growth. 
 

6.05.2016, 15:34
G_Money33
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MIke1
These units all cost hard cash but suffer ginormously from growth penalties. Additionally, its technically impossible to make quality higher than 20 something even with tech as high as 30).

I wonder if we still don't have the formula correct... 
 

7.05.2016, 04:40

Last time edited : 7.05.2016, 05:20
Gendalf04
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One year with Virtonomics
l:
Kuku Industries
 
Mike1
Jeka, what about mining, sawmills, agricultural farms, fishing bases?
 
These units all cost hard cash but suffer ginormously from growth penalties. Additionally, its technically impossible to make quality higher than 20 something even with tech as high as 30).
 
Since these units are for real cash, with quality penalty AND Top1+3 penalties, these state enterprises are the most ungrateful investments in the game as it literally requires hundreds of USD to achieve good growth.
That must be a common way of thinking once you embrace what’s it like to be a virto-oligarch.
Enormous profits from farms now are tagged as enormous suffering.
Can’t complain if for someone with high agriculture quals. increasing quals. growth is still a pressing need. It’s just the term “ungrateful investment” is too strong of a word for the farms that bring a loadz of cash. 
 

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