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Topic created : 27.04.2016, 17:32

Last time edited : 5.05.2016, 17:48
Jayman
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How producing below average quality products effects qualification growth
Cowsheds (500 workers each at Q9.20, Tech 16)
Qualification growth
1 cowshed, above average quality (15.48 vs 9.37)
0.13%
1 cowshed, below average quality (7.90 vs 9.36)
0.01%
2 cowsheds (1 above avg Q, 1 below avg Q) (11.69 vs 9.45)
0.14%

Conclusion: The amount a particular subdivision contributes to qualification growth is much less (10% of normal amount) when it produces below average quality products but it does not appear to harm overall qualification growth.
 

Whether it makes a difference if average quality is above or below realm average
Cowsheds (500 workers each at Q9.20, Tech 16)
Qualification growth
2 cowsheds (1 @ Q7.9, 1 @ Q15.48) above average quality (11.69 vs 9.36)
0.14%
2 cowsheds (1 @ Q8.3, 1 @ Q10.64) below average quality (9.47 vs 9.50)
0.14%

Conclusion: It does not make any difference whether average quality is above or below the realm average.
 
Just to confirm
2 cowsheds (1 @ Q1/Tech 1, 1 @ Q15.48) above average quality (10.90 vs 9.50)
0.17%
2 cowsheds (1 @ Q1/Tech 1, 1 @ Q11.17) below average quality (7.99 vs 9.51)
0.17%

Conclusion: It does not make any difference whether average quality is above or below the realm average.   

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7.05.2016, 06:51

Last time edited : 7.05.2016, 07:10
jeka_igla
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Mike1
I know the issue with mining, sawmills, agricultural farms, fishing bases but luckily if i understood new mechanic right, as long as you produce goods with higher quality than realm's average, no penalties will apply (same as before) and this new TP thing does not matter in this case.
 
So if you have fishing qualification 50 and TP Q is 43.01 is doesn't mean you have to produce fish with quality higher than that if you making goods with Q higher than realm average. So this TP mechanic is pretty much for livestock and production, it doesn't change much for mining, sawmills, agricultural farms and fishing bases.
 
This is what i said here
- If you produce goods with quality higher than average* you get no growth penalty
meaning that TP in this case does not matter
 
I know what are you talking about and i also feel that this is ridiculous that we have to make goods in paid subdivisions with higher Q to get decent growth but somehow there has not been many complaints about it. Also for years this game had a strong "lobby" of farmers and many changes were made which made farming and agriculture much more beneficial.
 
I would start a serious discussion about this thing but when i did it last time in Russian forum turned out that:
- 80% of people does not care because they don't buy points and such subdivision  
- 75% of those who buy such subdivisions don't know how qualification work, therefore they don't care care as well
- This penalty starts only from level 20, so many new players don't feel it hen they buy a farm or a mine
- So the only like 5% of players care about this stuff and they say it ones a year and then it just gets no attention.
 
Let's me know what you think would be the right approach here. Are you struggling with improving agriculture qualification? I think the main problem here is not the quality but the fact that we need a lot of workers to load top3 and we can get those workers only for real money. The good thing is that sawmills belong to production area and players usually can use very high technologies there and with agriculture you get additional growth of Q because if a farm works like 3 out of 12 month your growth would be 4 times faster as if this farm worked the whole year. Knowing that and the fact that players can switch specializations and extract more then one resource makes improving this Q easier (until the certain point when you have to buy another big size farm to hire more people).
 
I wouldn't argue that miners and those who do fishing are struggle in this game with improving Q. I'll bring it up when i have a chance and will try to convince admins to change this mechanic a bit. 
 

7.05.2016, 09:24
Jayman
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Gendalf04
Jayman

Conclusion: It does not make any difference whether average quality is above or below the realm average.
That is strange. On which realm did you test it? From my experience with sheep farms, producing below realm average completely cuts off the qual. growth.

I tested it on lien realm.
 
I thought I noticed it cutting growth earlier but when I tested it there wasn't any difference. In the last example, I actually got higher growth when I reduced the quality by lowering the technology so it's possible there are other factors involved. You can test and post your results if you think they'll be different.
 
To clarify, the results in the last 4 examples all had 2 farms with one producing above average quality and the other producing below average quality. Growth was the same regardless of whether the average quality of those two farms was above or below the realm average. 
 

7.05.2016, 11:00

Last time edited : 7.05.2016, 11:01
Gendalf04
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Jayman

I tested it on lien realm.
To clarify, the results in the last 4 examples all had 2 farms with one producing above average quality and the other producing below average quality.
How is that possible to manage only 2 farms while having qual. at 40 on Lien? Am I missing something? 
 

7.05.2016, 17:21

Last time edited : 7.05.2016, 17:23
Jayman
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Gendalf04
Jayman

I tested it on lien realm.
To clarify, the results in the last 4 examples all had 2 farms with one producing above average quality and the other producing below average quality.
How is that possible to manage only 2 farms while having qual. at 40 on Lien? Am I missing something?

I had more farms to increase qualification but to do the testing I put most of them on holiday. 
 

7.05.2016, 18:44
Gendalf04
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That must be a reason why you didn't feel the curse of below realm average quality. You would have a different results if you filled up the top3. 
 

9.05.2016, 14:56

Last time edited : 9.05.2016, 15:01
Mike1
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Jeka,: yes, i was exactly wondering whether there was any adjustment for state enterprises  (and further info about it) .
 
Mines: i’ve been inventing tech up to level 29 - 7 years without interruption -  spent hundreds of USD to buy mines. Despite that my qualification (without bonuses) is still hat 45.
 
Agricultural is a bit better because i had mostly given up buying property with quality 1 but for mines, output volumes are so huge that it is unaffordable.
 
The worst are indeed mining and fishing farms but i think qualification penalties for all state enterprises for which players pay money should be a lot less restrictive than the free-to-play qualifications.  The administration should care about players who pay, their proportion to the non-paying customers isn't a suitable reference - unless the admins doesn't care about income. As for now i have a choice, do i stop paying and just give up growing these sectors, or keep investing more and more, but its never enough? 
 

9.05.2016, 17:03

Last time edited : 9.05.2016, 17:09
VolandAV
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jeka_igla

Lucky for people who are in Lien and Mary av Q is quite low and for you guys it is not that big of a problem but in Vera av Q is 40-60 (sometimes 80-100+) so with qualification 20-30 it is impossible to produce higher then Av. Hope this new update will partly fix it.

On Mary, there are many products that produce top players in the 95-100% of the total. Thus the average of the Realm quality equal to their quality (very high). So the problem exists on servers  Mary and Lien. 
 

9.05.2016, 17:56
JustNash
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it's great that we know how to calculate the minimum quality of our production according to our qualification. It would be even greater though, to know what the effective impact on our qualification growth was when we fall short.
 
Example:
 
My company produces 25 million units of various products a day. What is the negative impact on growth for following products:
 
A: 2.5 million units of quality 9 with a realm average of 10
B: 0.5 million units of quality 7 with a realm average of 10
 
My production qualification is: 82 + 8 
 

10.05.2016, 04:31
Gendalf04
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JustNash
It would be even greater though, to know what the effective impact on our qualification growth was when we fall short.
To formulate the question a little further, I would say
 
1. Lagging quality: Is there any difference how much far is the quality from the realm average? Does the system’s calculations take into account the degree of lagging quality? Any difference between 5 or 8 (quality) against 9 (realm average)?
2. Quantity of the lagging quality: Any impact on growth penalty of the amount of the product produced below realm average? If yes, in reference to what the calculations are based? Is it in percentage of your total production? Or is it in percentage of the realm output for that specific product lagging in quality?
 
The second one particularly interests me, as in my experience while restructuring my productions lines, I stopped a lot of them which don’t meet the realm average. But I kept the just some of them, while increasing their output. So simply saying, less of the productions, but few of them that were kept are in percentage leading on the realm. And that seemed to negatively impact the growth. So I’m curious if someone has the definitive answer. 
 

10.05.2016, 07:44

Last time edited : 11.05.2016, 08:03
VolandAV
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1. Yes. The larger the backlog - the greater the penalty.
2. Yes. True, I did not understand what units taken volume production (goods units, value, or something else). But the more I run production with a lag from the realms of average quality, the lower the qualification rate of growth. 
 

10.05.2016, 08:41

Last time edited : 10.05.2016, 08:41
Gendalf04
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VolandAV, thanks.
It's great to have one more russian speaking active player who is open to share his know-how. 
 

10.05.2016, 19:39
Jayman
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JustNash
it's great that we know how to calculate the minimum quality of our production according to our qualification. It would be even greater though, to know what the effective impact on our qualification growth was when we fall short.
 
Example:
 
My company produces 25 million units of various products a day. What is the negative impact on growth for following products:
 
A: 2.5 million units of quality 9 with a realm average of 10
B: 0.5 million units of quality 7 with a realm average of 10
 
My production qualification is: 82 + 8

If I did my experiment correctly, growth should increase by 10% of the normal amount. You could always write down your qualification growth and see how much it increases after you produce below average quality versus above average quality products. If you only have a few subdivisions producing below average quality I'd expect them to contribute very little to qualification growth. 
 

11.05.2016, 04:40
Gendalf04
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Kuku Industries
 
JustNash
My production qualification is: 82 + 8
 
 

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The use of any materials and articles from our website is possible only with a direct link to the Virtonomics website. When mentioning our business game in publications, please use the names "Economics game Virtonomics" or "Business game Virtonomics".


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