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List of forums -> Main forum of the online business game "Virtonomics" -> Changes to qualification growth algorithm

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Topic created : 25.11.2011, 12:01

Last time edited : 13.04.2012, 18:26
VLLord
Eleven years with Virtonomics For contribution to the development of Virtonomics Golden amphora of Heraklion Golden bed-clothing Standard underwear
m:
Golden Empire
 
3 days ago there was an inmportant announcement on the russian forum... Guess this information is worth to be mentioned here as well.
 
diska
Внесены корректировки в алгоритм роста квалификации.
 
Каждый "естественный" полученный уровень навыка увеличивает необходимое количество опыта для достижения  последующего на 5%.
 
При этом приобретенные за очки уровни возвращают скорость естественного роста к изначальным значениям (без 5%-ных прибавок).
Каждый навык топ-менеджера учитывается отдельно.
 
Ранее достигнутые уровни (до 20 ноября) не влияют на скорость роста.

 
jobond
test01

Вопрос в образовательных целях. 11 "естественный" уровень будет теперь дороже на 10*5 = 50% или на 1.05 Pow 10 = 62,9% ?

Второе. Покупка квалификации сбрасывает рост к исходному уровню.

Now in English. I'll explain the new algorithm using the following example.
 
As for November 20, your qualification in production was 5.
 
According to the new algorithm you get a penalty of 5% growth slowdown for every "qualification up of itself". Penalties are summed up according to a compaund interest formula, not a simple one.
 
Expected growth in production:
 
Q lvl     was      now
5          40%     40%
6          36%     36/1.05 = 34%
7          33%     33/1.05^2 = 30%
8          31%     31/1.05^3 = 27%
...
20        18%     18/1.05^15 = 9% -> you decided to buy 21st lvl with game points
21         -           -
22        17%     17%
23        17%      17/1.05 = 16% and so on...
 
Buying qualification with game points burns down previous penalties (for this qualification field only).
Penalties are independent for every qualification field (production, commerce etc.).
 

Let's consider another example.
 
You've just started and you want to get to Q50 in management.
 
Q lvl     was      now
1          100%   100%
...
10        27%     17%
...
30        14%     3%
...
50        11%     1%
 
Note #1.
 
All qualification skills gained before November 20, don't affect growth (no penalty).
 
Note #2.
 
It takes 28 days to get 10 in management on condition that you grow at max.
 

Table #1
 
Q lvl  Slowdown (times)
1 1,00
2 1,05
3 1,10
4 1,16
5 1,22
6 1,28
7 1,34
8 1,41
9 1,48
10 1,55
11 1,63
12 1,71
13 1,80
14 1,89
15 1,98
16 2,08
17 2,18
18 2,29
19 2,41
20 2,53
21 2,65
22 2,79
23 2,93
24 3,07
25 3,23
26 3,39
27 3,56
28 3,73
29 3,92
30 4,12
31 4,32
32 4,54
33 4,76
34 5,00
35 5,25
36 5,52
37 5,79
38 6,08
39 6,39
40 6,70
41 7,04
42 7,39
43 7,76
44 8,15
45 8,56
46 8,99
47 9,43
48 9,91
49 10,40
50 10,92
 
Table #2
 

   

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1.12.2011, 13:36
Moira
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Trade Turnover Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
 
The more I think about it, the more I feel that this change has a kind of organized crime/mob-esque style, like when they appear in your office/shop and offers you NOT to screw you big time if you pay them.
 
Maybe its just me, but it does ring a bell for me 
 

1.12.2011, 18:21.     Subject: We need Moira
EvilRuler
Seven years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Trade Turnover Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
Six years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
l:
PELICAN BAY
 
This game "eats it's babies" already and is getting even worse.You are DEGRADING your product.Administrative indifference to its players in this game is the lowest I've seen anywhere.You are KILLING this game. 
 

3.12.2011, 02:29

Last time edited : 3.12.2011, 02:34
shlomiag
Five years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Trade Turnover Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
 
It looks as if whoever is in charge now of this business game, has no idea how to do business.
There is a lot do here - mainly to make the game more appealing to new players - but all they do is make more parts of the game out of reach for normal players.
How much does an average player spend? I don't think it's more than a few dollars. To make it here you will need tens or even hundreds of dollars on all the agriculture, mining, villas, etc. required for a full company.
One example is that instead of appealing to new players, the first thing you learn as a new player that the contest for managers is next to impossible without paying.
 
The fact is that they don't care about us as their customers.
Maybe we should do something like we would do in the real world - like organizing some kind of protest.
A group of people saying 'we love this game but if you keep acting like this we would walk away' will make them think again. 
 

5.12.2011, 03:35
zubizarus
Six years with Virtonomics
Seven years with Virtonomics
 
Well, it may be the case of some spring cleaning, maybe there is some ballast that need get rid of. The game won't be killed off, could be a money making scheme for a short time but after that changes for the better shall come.
Even if they keep this milking policy and eventually losing most players, by sure someone shall seize the opportunity and make a similar game.
We shall see. 
 

6.12.2011, 02:58
Fanatyk
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Trade Turnover Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
 
And the worst part is the fact, that devs don't even try to discuss it, or to explain their actions here, or anywhere else. Really guys, it's great PR - showing your customers you don't give a crap.
 
Cheers,
Adam 
 

7.12.2011, 01:48
shlomiag
Five years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Trade Turnover Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
 
I for one made a deep step back - I now invest only a few minutes every day instead of much longer before 
 

7.12.2011, 16:43
Geekrulez
Eleven years with Virtonomics
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!"
 
Interesting, everything here is either a rant or neutral.
However, none I find is in Anna. Or it is never shown ?
 
Lets play Anna. It would be fun Very we!
If my assumption is correct the ones that plays Anna are only Russian.
 
@Fanatyk :
Actually, Zynga business model is problematic. Investors know this. So, when they try to get IPO, they carefully pick the time so their IPO pricing is the highest possible.
 
Businessweek :
Scaling Back
 
Zynga had originally planned a larger IPO, scaling back after Internet companies including Groupon Inc. and Pandora Media Inc. sank following their debuts this year, a person familiar with the plans said yesterday. Zynga is selling about 14 percent of its common stock, a larger portion than some Web companies have sold this year in offerings.
 
The price range puts Zynga’s market value at least 29 percent lower than the level implied by a February investment by mutual funds affiliated with Morgan Stanley, according to today’s filing. The funds bought 5.3 million preferred shares for $75 million, or $14 a share, today’s filing shows. When the IPO is completed, each of those preferred shares will convert to one common share, according to the filing.
 
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-07/zynga-seeks-up-to-1-billion-in-biggest-web-ipo-since-goo ...
 
People who play Zynga usually play it casually. They are the ones that put out money from their pocket in the blink of an eye. For more serious-minded people (me and my friend), it is played less and less, especially when one cannot learn almost anything.
 

 
Guys, if you don't want to pay for resources (qualifications and others). Lets just play Anna. We can have three months contest or something. The objective can be anything prestigious. 
 

7.12.2011, 17:48.     Subject: What are you smoking Geekrulez?
katsukobe
Eight years with Virtonomics
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Nation's Health Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
Eight years with Virtonomics
n:
INCOGNI-CO
m:
JERSEY FARMS
 
Seriously,everything you say is either neutral or makes no sense.Many of us were or are still planning on putting money in at some point and are now seriously re-thinking how much time and money we might be willing to commit to what is feeling more like a sinking ship every day. 
 

8.12.2011, 07:59

Last time edited : 8.12.2011, 08:15
Mike1
Eleven years with Virtonomics
Four years with Virtonomics
Основатель г.Парауапебас Thirteen years With Virtonomics Founder of Badagri Founder of Acharnes Coupe du Monde Russia soccer ball Portugal soccer ball Belgium soccer ball
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Mandarin duck For contribution to the development of Virtonomics Founder of the city Jalingo Founder of the city Lafia The tender collider, VII-XV places The tender collider, VII-XV places The tender collider, IV-VI places The tender collider, IV-VI places
The tender collider, IV-VI places The tender collider, IV-VI places The tender collider, II-III places The tender collider, II-III places The tender collider, II-III places The tender collider, II-III places The tender collider, II-III places The tender collider, II-III places
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m:
Mico Inc
 
Dutchsmurf

 
Any change that handicaps new players more than existing players means killing a game. Any game needs a constant entry of new players to stay successful. Virtonomics already has enough problems keeping new players as it is. Instead of making changes like this one, that should be the focus. I might be missing something

Supposed there is a underlying strategy NOT based on trial and error then there can be a logical explanation for all this: The game may be technically limited to a certain amount of players and the player quantity has to be purged regularly to keep within the limits. At the same time, revenue from existing players is to be increased. That way everything makes great sense and the strategy is well executed.
 
Additionally,  the non-informing of important decisions in the english forum by the administration and the sending of dead links (such as the Miss Virtonomics voting leading to some russian text) via the messages system may suggest that non-russian players aren't welcome in general.
 
Note, i am just a casual player not affiliated with the game administration, my opinions are based on personal logic interpretation without any knowledge of the game's real strategy. 
 

9.12.2011, 02:21
Fanatyk
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Trade Turnover Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
 
Well, it is always worth to expand your visitor base. For 600 000 daily players (and certainly there are actually less DAILY players than that), the costs of hosting aren't extremely high on per visitor basis. There are lots of solutions out there you can use for hosting, including a private server - and the calculations involved in this game are extremely simple. 600 000 players is almost nothing for a modern computer (having 2 hours to crunch through them), not even mentioning anything worth calling a server. Unless the code is real crap. This is not nearly as demanding in terms of computing power, as a simple CFD problems (Computational Fluid Dynamics), and even my laptop can solve such problem in 30 mins to an hour max.
 

Geekrulez, I have no idea what you are trying to proove here and whats your point. If you wanted to show some business knowledge - it's interesting. If you wanted to actually get your point through - I am afraid I'm talking strawberies and you're talking apples. I'll try guessing what could have been your point.
 
So: yes, the  Zynga might have underperformed in the business terms. But it does not matter at all. Why? Simply because they are one of the biggest players in the market - so they are one of the best guys out there. Maybe hopes were a bit higher, but it does not change the simple fact, that their business model works very well - otherwise they would not be such a big company, would they? I'm not thinking of buying their shares, but simply showing their strengths. And I can't see any relationship whatsoever between my point and IPO.
 
In terms of paying for premiums in games... If I'm having fun and I am a serious person not willing to waste my time on getting to some level, when the fun starts - I'd pay. But that's just my perspective.Anyway, I've shared my views on that one in this article: http://altergamer.blogspot.com/2011/11/on-universality-of-resources.html , so I'm not going to repeat myself now :-P
 
Cheers,
Adam 
 

9.12.2011, 20:06
Melchior2008
Thirteen years With Virtonomics Bastille Key Triple corporate chevron Production: elite Science: bachelor Management: bachelor For contribution to the development of Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!"
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Trade Turnover Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics Kuwait retail leader
m:
RoMa Inc.
 
I don't think there are 600.000 daily players. Maybe something between 6.000 and 60.000. 
 

9.12.2011, 22:28
VLLord
Eleven years with Virtonomics For contribution to the development of Virtonomics Golden amphora of Heraklion Golden bed-clothing Standard underwear
m:
Golden Empire
 
Melchior2008
I don't think there are 600.000 daily players. Maybe something between 6.000 and 60.000.

You're an optimistWell 
Consulting Services. Improve your business today!
 

9.12.2011, 23:51
Melchior2008
Thirteen years With Virtonomics Bastille Key Triple corporate chevron Production: elite Science: bachelor Management: bachelor For contribution to the development of Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!"
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Trade Turnover Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics Kuwait retail leader
m:
RoMa Inc.
 
I'm just guessing Well Really don't know how many russian people are playing. 
 

10.12.2011, 01:47
Fanatyk
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Trade Turnover Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
 
Well, than I guess my old cellular phone would be able to do the daily update by itself in less than an hour ;-) Maybe I should donate one, so that devs don't have to scare players out ;-)
 
Cheers,
Adam 
 

14.12.2011, 22:18
Geekrulez
Eleven years with Virtonomics
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!"
 
Fanatyk
Well, it is always worth to expand your visitor base. For 600 000 daily players (and certainly there are actually less DAILY players than that), the costs of hosting aren't extremely high on per visitor basis. There are lots of solutions out there you can use for hosting, including a private server - and the calculations involved in this game are extremely simple. 600 000 players is almost nothing for a modern computer (having 2 hours to crunch through them), not even mentioning anything worth calling a server. Unless the code is real crap. This is not nearly as demanding in terms of computing power, as a simple CFD problems (Computational Fluid Dynamics), and even my laptop can solve such problem in 30 mins to an hour max.
 
 
Geekrulez, I have no idea what you are trying to proove here and whats your point. If you wanted to show some business knowledge - it's interesting. If you wanted to actually get your point through - I am afraid I'm talking strawberies and you're talking apples. I'll try guessing what could have been your point.
 
So: yes, the  Zynga might have underperformed in the business terms. But it does not matter at all. Why? Simply because they are one of the biggest players in the market - so they are one of the best guys out there. Maybe hopes were a bit higher, but it does not change the simple fact, that their business model works very well - otherwise they would not be such a big company, would they? I'm not thinking of buying their shares, but simply showing their strengths. And I can't see any relationship whatsoever between my point and IPO.
 
In terms of paying for premiums in games... If I'm having fun and I am a serious person not willing to waste my time on getting to some level, when the fun starts - I'd pay. But that's just my perspective.Anyway, I've shared my views on that one in this article: http://altergamer.blogspot.com/2011/11/on-universality-of-resources.html , so I'm not going to repeat myself now :-P
 
Cheers,
Adam

Actually, I am referring to your point of view that Zynga's business model is worth as reference. As I show articles from expert, it is not. There are many similar views if you often hang around business websites or.. relearn and apply the economic 101.
Even if you call it success, the user base is different. Zynga targets casual players who spend money casually. Like buying candy. I put the context in general. You are one of the few that is different and I appreciate your attitude.
It is just that the statistics dont lie in this kind of marketing. The number of non-English playing Anna showing that easily.
 

Point of difference :
1. Zynga games are real times, Virto is turnbased
2. The package purchase range from very cheap to expensive in Zynga's games, Virto is usually in expensive compared to Zynga's offering. Trying to buy level 1 farm ? 40 x $1.15
3. Zynga's user base is million times compared to Virto. Even 3% frequent purchase by Zynga's players result in hundreds of million of dollars.
4. Zynga players purchase frequently. Virto ? We purchase one time nonconsumable asset, except mining. Features are no different. Too expensive for frequent purchases.
5. You add it.
 

You mention processing power for this game. I agree the server side is not that expensive. It is the fixed cost.
How about the variable cost ?
1. Bandwith
2. Storage
 

Perhaps it is already profitable. Suppose it generates $1,000 in net income. How about the ROI (Return on Investment) ?
Suppose the owner-investors put most of their time on this project, they must have also thought the opportunity cost pursuing this project. I assume such professionals earn more on their own than what this project yields. 
 

List of forums -> Main forum of the online business game "Virtonomics"-> Changes to qualification growth algorithm

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