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Humor, love, politics, economics, culture and everything that is not about tycoon games

Topic:
  

Topic created : 31.12.2013, 00:18

Last time edited : 24.11.2015, 00:10
XiozZe
For contribution to the development of Virtonomics Seven years with Virtonomics
m:
Oxellic
 
Hey everybody!
 
A hard game is a great game. Everybody wants to play a hard game, because everybody wants a challenge. However, what if a game get's too hard? Then you or are a die-hard and play further, or you give up.
 
If you ask the most people that read this, whether they have difficulties playing this game, they will say: "not at all". And that is the right answer, because I don't think that many players that played this game for over a month, have really much trouble to keep the company cash levels positive.
 
Why do so many new players give up then? That's because the begin is hard. The first day, the first week, the first month. After that, we all understand it: the real game begins.
 
Many before us have tried to help them, to name a few: Starterfund and the whole organisition behind it, they supplied the newbies with cheap products and technology to give them a head start; VLLord, erevion, turkbostjan and goto64, they all made their brilliant guides to get the new players moving; we have noglues5, who produced an explanation guide about the qualification; and last: all the players who toke the time to answer their questions on the forum or by PM's.
 
However, we still have a long way to go, I feel all things above are still not 100% satisfying. They are a great help, but should the new players really be totally dependent on those things? What does this game miss, that all other (hard) games have? I think, it's an in-game tutorial.
 
The average player do something like this: he registers, and with uncle's gift he already has a factory and a shop. From there, no-one tells him what to do, to be successful. The next day he sees the effiencies and his cash drop and leaves the game, because he was too confused to understand what he actually had to do.
 
I don't know if many people have cats as pet, but if you do: what do you do with the cat, if you just adopted him from the animal shelter? Do you open the door and let the cat outside on their own? Of course not: he first have to feel home, then you can walk with him outside, just like a dog, with a harness and a leash so he can't run away when something unexpected happens. And after a few times, you can remove it and he will happily walks in and out the house on it's own.
The new players are like these cats: but they are just thrown into the game, and no-one to let them see the neighborhood. No wonder they get lost.
 
What I want to discuss, is how we want the in-game tutorial should look like. When we have a plan that is organised, well thought out, and really clear, I'm sure the dev's pick it up and implement it.
 
Give me every thought in your mind!   

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31.12.2013, 03:07
Desolation72724
Eight years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
Eight years with Virtonomics
m:
Bjorn Enterprises
 
I think your script is a MUST have for every beginner. When I started out, my factories were operating at 80% efficiency for a long time, before i stumbled on your script and since then my production has been smooth sailing.
 
One other thing to remember is, the results are not immediate in this game. A lot of times people order TOO many goods, and expect it to be sold the next day. That is one of the first things that SHOULD be explained in the tutorial. To me, this is the principal reason for a person leaving.
 
Points that can and should be included in the guide :
 
- How qualification works and it's effect on business operations
 
- Retail tips are a MUST for newbies. They should be warned about excessive product purchases when starting out.
 
- They should be made aware of the contest for managers. When new players realize they have a chance to win virts within the first 30 days, they will have more motivation to stick around and make it work. Emphasis should also be placed on how this contest can be won. I remember seeing a table in the forums that listed how many employees should be hired at each office to achieve management  Q10 in 30 days.
 
- Over-trading. This is a business concept and it is clearly present in virtonomics. The dangers of over-trading should be pointed out.
 
- I also think Lien is a lesser competitive environment and people should first start at lien because retail is inflated. This can help them to pick the game up faster as they will see returns being generated at a faster rate.
 
That's all on my mind right now since it's 3 am here, but this is a good initiative. The devs HAVE to come up with a guide. No question about it. IF i knew what i know now, I would have been all over lien Very we!
Lack of a guide is also a huge negative on the dev's earnings. As more people playing = more chances of them buying points. 
 

31.12.2013, 17:58
orbiter
Seven years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Nation's Health Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
Seven years with Virtonomics Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination Tender mania Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
 
Desolation72724
I also think Lien is a lesser competitive environment and people should first start at lien because retail is inflated. This can help them to pick the game up faster as they will see returns being generated at a faster rate.

Yes Good point Bjorn. I think Lien is only for those who like less challenging environments. However, the difficulty of getting resources resources like gold, diamonds, copper pyrites on the market will be a source of frustration to some players (like me). Lien is a good place to learn the basics before moving on to a more difficult realm.
 
Desolation72724
The devs HAVE to come up with a guide. No question about it. IF i knew what i know now, I would have been all over lien Very we!

There is a competition going on right now to see who can write the best guide for beginners. It will be in Russian and I hope that they translate it into English as soon as the winner is announced. Yes 
 

31.12.2013, 18:25
JustNash
Twelve years with Virtonomics Jubilee Ten Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Macedonian common amphora Common amphora of Heraklion The winner in the nomination Your Way to success of the Industry Competition Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!"
One year with Virtonomics
Основатель г.Хасселт Jewelry Loupe Founder of Carcassonne Twelve years with Virtonomics Belgium soccer ball Traskor Swedish standard Viking helmet
Dalahast Deer horns Ingvar Kamprad Order Mathematic teacher Compass Festive glasses Jubilee Ten Silver Ten
For contribution to the development of Virtonomics The tender collider, VII-XV places The tender collider, VII-XV places The tender collider, VII-XV places The tender collider, IV-VI places The tender collider, IV-VI places World Cuisines, VII-XV places World Cuisines, VII-XV places
World Cuisines, IV-Vi places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places
Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, IV-VI, places
Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, II-III places Shagreen, II-III places Shagreen, II-III places Shagreen, II-III places
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Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Founder of the city Sikasso Macedonian Silver amphora Bronze amphora of Heraklion The winner of the Industry Competition The winner in the nomination Your Way to success of the Industry Competition The winner of the Storm of regions nomination of the Industry Competition The winner of the Standard of Virtonomics nomination of the Industry Competition
Three years with Virtonomics
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Premium Brands
m:
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excellent initiative! More players = more fun + more funds for development = more fun = more players = ...
 
Whilst every written document/script/... will definitely help, it is my personal opinion that the biggest advancement would be a "personal help desk". Preferably in the language of the player.
 
An immediate fix could be a new section on the forum where newbies can ask the same question over and over again. Even if another newbie asked the same question half an hour before. There should be a permanent button in red on every company page for newbies: "STUCK? Ask an experienced player HERE in your own language" with a link to that forum.
 
Further developments could create a panel of players (showing their languages) willing to help newbies. Create a sort of chatroom for that. That would imply a push message to the panel's members everytime a question is asked.
 
To motivate the experienced players helping the newbies, they might be endowed with virts every now and again. Just as a token of appreciation. Of course: more helpfulness = more virts... 
 

1.01.2014, 12:22
hitaishi
Thirteen years With Virtonomics Triple corporate chevron Production: elite World Cuisines, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places
Thirteen years With Virtonomics Shagreen, VII-XV places
l:
Tantra International
m:
Hitaishi Ltd.
 
In my opinion, there shoud be in game help and guide that is much more detailed and explains game concepts rather than some canned 'This is thi' message. Something on the lines of 'Civilopedia' we see in the Civilization series of games.
 
The biggest deterrent to new players is when they get stumped and do not have enough info on hand or enough help from others to solve the problem. Nobody likes to pour through tomes of guides and tutorials from the get go, they want to play the game and learn as they go. This game has a very steep learning curve, and it should be made easier for new players to scale it in the beginning.  I remember when starting out my biggest questions were...
 
How do I price my product? Where do I sell my product? Which Industry should i invest in?
 
It is the responsibility of the game to make enough data points available and teach players to study them and make their decisions. EXAMPLES are the key, quantitative and substantial.
 
Maybe they can put together a mentor system. Like new players can be assigned a veteran player as mentor. And if the mentor does his job well he will be rewarded handsomely along with the new player.
 
Just my 2 cents. 
 

2.01.2014, 13:50
JustNash
Twelve years with Virtonomics Jubilee Ten Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Macedonian common amphora Common amphora of Heraklion The winner in the nomination Your Way to success of the Industry Competition Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!"
One year with Virtonomics
Основатель г.Хасселт Jewelry Loupe Founder of Carcassonne Twelve years with Virtonomics Belgium soccer ball Traskor Swedish standard Viking helmet
Dalahast Deer horns Ingvar Kamprad Order Mathematic teacher Compass Festive glasses Jubilee Ten Silver Ten
For contribution to the development of Virtonomics The tender collider, VII-XV places The tender collider, VII-XV places The tender collider, VII-XV places The tender collider, IV-VI places The tender collider, IV-VI places World Cuisines, VII-XV places World Cuisines, VII-XV places
World Cuisines, IV-Vi places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places
Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, IV-VI, places
Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, II-III places Shagreen, II-III places Shagreen, II-III places Shagreen, II-III places
Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons
Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Founder of the city Sikasso Macedonian Silver amphora Bronze amphora of Heraklion The winner of the Industry Competition The winner in the nomination Your Way to success of the Industry Competition The winner of the Storm of regions nomination of the Industry Competition The winner of the Standard of Virtonomics nomination of the Industry Competition
Three years with Virtonomics
l:
Premium Brands
m:
Premium Brands
 
to make it easier for the mentor, it could be made possible for him to see all the screens of the trainee. That way a mentor can quickly assess the situation, identify the problem and help out. 
 

3.01.2014, 19:48

Last time edited : 3.01.2014, 19:49
XiozZe
For contribution to the development of Virtonomics Seven years with Virtonomics
m:
Oxellic
 
I have thought of some options here:
 
Starting sandbox:
You first store will be placed somewhere off the realm, with a fixed amount of suppliers and prices on the market. With little popup messages (something like that question mark in the lower right corner of the screen if you change computers) they will help you with your first steps. After you have learned a lot, you will be dumped to the realm like we normally do, and then the real game starts.
 
We could make the sandbox with real days, like now, or with "press the button to go to the next day", because you don't rely on others. The user chooses when it's time to move on.
 
Reduced options:
This is another cool thing you see by some games. Instead of giving you an overload of information, you reduce the amount of options. To unlock those options, you have to have a certain amount of manager qualification. For example: in the building screen all buildings are disabled except "Office", "Mill", "Factory", "Animal farm", and "Warehouse". This would make it a lot easier, and for example "Service sector" is unlocked on Management Manager qualification "3".
 
Not only this, but also some screen in the interface: "Politics" and "Corporation". Just make the buttons that lead to these pages grey, and set a "You need Management Qualification of 10" message. This will give a safer feeling as a beginner.
 
I can even go further: reduce factory types (Who needs aircraft/power plant factories on level 1?), Lock franchises (Maybe just till production qualification 3), etc.
 
Hover messages:
For every term that is used in this game, there should be a message that explains a bit of it. Just like you can hover your mouse over the pictures of the tenders, to get a summary of what it exactly is. For example: in the shop, when you hover your mouse over "Number of departments", there should be a message like: "Departments: all the retail goods are categorized in departments. Meat and eggs are in the foodstuff departments, engine oil and motors are in the car-goods department. For every departments a shop has, the service level is harder to keep at maximum. More departments in a shop will also lower the amount of sales of each item."
 
Help me to list the pros and cons. Maybe a combination of all of them? 
 

3.01.2014, 20:18
JustNash
Twelve years with Virtonomics Jubilee Ten Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Macedonian common amphora Common amphora of Heraklion The winner in the nomination Your Way to success of the Industry Competition Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!"
One year with Virtonomics
Основатель г.Хасселт Jewelry Loupe Founder of Carcassonne Twelve years with Virtonomics Belgium soccer ball Traskor Swedish standard Viking helmet
Dalahast Deer horns Ingvar Kamprad Order Mathematic teacher Compass Festive glasses Jubilee Ten Silver Ten
For contribution to the development of Virtonomics The tender collider, VII-XV places The tender collider, VII-XV places The tender collider, VII-XV places The tender collider, IV-VI places The tender collider, IV-VI places World Cuisines, VII-XV places World Cuisines, VII-XV places
World Cuisines, IV-Vi places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places
Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, IV-VI, places
Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, IV-VI, places Shagreen, II-III places Shagreen, II-III places Shagreen, II-III places Shagreen, II-III places
Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons
Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Founder of the city Sikasso Macedonian Silver amphora Bronze amphora of Heraklion The winner of the Industry Competition The winner in the nomination Your Way to success of the Industry Competition The winner of the Storm of regions nomination of the Industry Competition The winner of the Standard of Virtonomics nomination of the Industry Competition
Three years with Virtonomics
l:
Premium Brands
m:
Premium Brands
 
I particularly like the sandbox tutorial thingy with click throughs, avoiding the player to have to wait a full day. 
 

4.01.2014, 12:06
hitaishi
Thirteen years With Virtonomics Triple corporate chevron Production: elite World Cuisines, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places
Thirteen years With Virtonomics Shagreen, VII-XV places
l:
Tantra International
m:
Hitaishi Ltd.
 
I wish the game devs / mods participate in this discussion. Constructive discussion is necessary on what is possible and what is not or if any of these ideas are already in pipeline. Regular to and fro between userbase and devs in such games can really go a long way in improving the quality of this game. 
 

9.01.2014, 10:33

Last time edited : 9.01.2014, 10:38
Ryan_47
Two years with Virtonomics
 
Hello Friends,
 
I am new to this game and I can tell you one thing that i have 'Restarted' the game more than 6 time as my cash wipes out every time.
 
sooner than later, i realized that for every New User or the Beginner patience is the key element and not to invest so much that your purchases are not aligned with Sale, and also that admin cost that gets ignored while decision making.
 
And as all we humans do is "How much" Liquid (Cash) Assets we have and the depletion of the same.
 
I like the Idea of 'XiozZe'- The Sandbox Option will be great.
 
I my opinion the best way to invest funds for New Users is the 'Retail'- As Goods and Products are manufactured for the simple reason to sale them- at the beginning let the 'Heavy' weights do the Production and you simply sell them to consumers.
 
Well 
 

24.01.2014, 00:34
XiozZe
For contribution to the development of Virtonomics Seven years with Virtonomics
m:
Oxellic
 
Someone an idea how to work out the sandbox mode?
 
-How many markets? Should all goods be available? Just one departments? Or even just two or three goods?
-Should the sandbox be generated randomly? Or fixed?
-Which buildings should be available? A store only, or all (non game point) buildings?
-How should the global market look like? Fixed prices/quality/brand or random?
-Should the player be able to skip the sandbox? Or be forced to play sandbox only for one day?
-Do you have to build the first store yourself? Or do you already get an example store?
-How about helping comments? Just like those question mark quests? (but then easier of course)
-Should the player be awarded when he completes the sandbox mode?
-Is the change from sandbox to real something the player must choose for himself? Or after completing certain missions?
-...
 
More ideas are welcome! 
 

24.01.2014, 04:20
Kludge
 
As someone new, I lost interest because of the extremely slow pace. TBH, most of it was fairly intuitive. The menus made sense, buttons did what was expected, info was easy to find where I wasn't making a connection... there is a lot of content, but most of it appears irrelevant to beginners. Quests were buggy... sure someone's gone into that elsewhere on the forum. The incredibly long amount of time between turns means you're putting in significant effort and time into something where there's slow feedback on how your choices affected the game.
 
It came off as a mock-up of a game since nothing was happening. I logged in now to see what happened, but now the server's down to calculate a turn. I don't have the patience or memory retention to come back later, but it's an interesting-looking game. A click-through sandbox game sounds great, though I have a feeling I'd just want to keep playing there instead of joining the "real" game. Fwiw. 
 

19.02.2014, 05:12

Last time edited : 19.02.2014, 06:56
VanguardScotland
Eleven years with Virtonomics
Eleven years with Virtonomics
 
Firstly, I'd like to say that I think the sandbox is an excellent idea and would probably have helped me at the start.
 
Now, I am about to go down again (sob). I can't afford to buy supplies and my manufacturing is suffering causing poorer and poorer revenue and on the vicious circle goes. I believe this to be from expanding too rapidly. I'd decide to expand or buy a factory then the sales would start to drop at the same time. This has happened to me a couple of times. Although, I do understand that, just like in the real world, luck plays a part. Never mind, I'll bounce back after the impending restart.
 
My point is that I have had to learn the game by myself and still am. The wiki was completely useless when I first started. I would have preferred that, instead of, or as well as, introducing the Mayoral thing, we had a series of "City Business Groups or Clubs" and "Trade Groups" ...as in real life. Here, fellow traders could share tips and warn of pitfalls (if they're not direct rivals, of course) "Chambers of Commerce" and "Business Development Centres" could do the mentoring job. I'd be happy to allow someone to 'see my books', if they were offering genuine help and maybe I could control that option. Perhaps there would be a deferred payment system for advice obtained from these agencies. The amount to be dependant upon success to ensure the advisor is doing his/her best.  Well
 
This might help keep new players and make the game slightly more social. We know many real deals and handshakes happen in this manner. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Or equally, a bit of social policing where your goods could be boycotted in retaliation for bad practices .... and so on and so on. I exclude Corporations from this because, although they have place, they are exclusive and not necessarily objective toward new businesses.
 
What works in the real world, should work here.
 
 

8.03.2014, 05:15
NoKnowligeNoPower
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Nation's Health Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
 
Greetings everyone. Im a new player, i opened up too many stores and GYMs and 90%of them are in negative proffit,thats becouse i didnt researched the markets and i heavent read the forum troughly to educate myself abot the core principles of how te game works. almoust quit becouse of that but i soleved 2 quests and its nothing that some thinking can not fix. with quiters there might be the case of too overwhelming information and lack of will to put an effort on using their brains on learnig,or in moments of lack of concentration they get frutrated about not figuring stuff out and conider this great tool for learnig not worth their time. thats just an assumption. I would like to see a chat on the blank area on the side of every page which would add a greater social element to this game but that probably would have some drawbacks too. IN RL U DONT GET TO CHOOSE THE DIFFICULTY AND HIS IS A REAL LIFE ECONOMICS SIMULATION so starting hard makes life problems in this area of expertie easier to solve imo! 
 

24.08.2014, 19:39
BLendbeqiri
Five years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Trade Turnover Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
Seven years with Virtonomics
 
I want to know how to calculation the output price any ideas guys 
 

24.08.2014, 19:48
mort100
Twelve years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Raw Material Base Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Trade Turnover Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
Twelve years with Virtonomics Founder of Makurdi Founder of Ado Ekiti Triple corporate chevron Double corporate chevron Production: elite Science: bachelor Management: bachelor
Mayor Mayor Mayor Mayor Mayor Mayor Mayor Mayor
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Governor Leader in technologies
l:
Mo corp
m:
Mo Industries
 
You can find most of the information you need in your subdivision:
-First, look at "specialization" in the main page, to see how much materials is needed for each product
-Go to the supply tab: now you see the material costs and you will see how much finished products to expect
-Back on the overview page, you can see the salary expense. Divide it on the amount of expected finished products to find the cost per unit.
 
Finally, the output price (we usually call it "prime cost") will also be affected by the electricity consumption and machinery amortization. Machinery amortization depend on how expensive machinery you buy. The power cost is a bit more difficult to predict before producing, but you can find the cost per MWh if you go to:
"Analytics" -> "Macroeconomics" -> *Choose Country* -> *Choose region* -> "Tariffs for the electric power" 
 

List of forums -> Free communication (everything except serious game talk)-> Keep the new players! (In-game tutorial)

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