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Topic:
Topic created : 3.02.2010, 07:17
Hi,
Are the players provided basic raw materials in the production of machinery i.e. Iron ore, coal, chrome etc. even if they don't own a mine/quarry or they don't have business deals/transactions with those who have mines/quarries??
Players are provided raw material in case of animal farms and mill. So is it the same in metallurgical production chain??
I have an additional query: What is the difference between Machine and CNC Machine? i came across them when i was looking in the production details of machine tool factory.
I have an additional query: What is the difference between Machine and CNC Machine? i came across them when i was looking in the production details of machine tool factory.
If you buy it, then no difference.
If you produce machines, you choose specialization to produce Machine or CNC Machine. Difference will be in and required raw materials.
3.02.2010, 19:34
lon_wolf19
Hi,
Are the players provided basic raw materials in the production of machinery i.e. Iron ore, coal, chrome etc. even if they don't own a mine/quarry or they don't have business deals/transactions with those who have mines/quarries??
Players are provided raw material in case of animal farms and mill. So is it the same in metallurgical production chain??
most raw materials have an 'independent supplier' who supplies quality 1 goods - like iron, coal, chrome etc.
so no, we do not need to own or mine/quarry nor buy from others players who have mines/quarries.
as posted in some other threads, the easiest may be to open a minerals warehouse and look for suppliers to get a better real time picture of current supplies and quality. you can then close the warehouse before the next update, and you will not have to pay rent (or any other expense) for the warehouse.
4.02.2010, 22:15
Thanks a tonne for the highly useful information ccm_tsang. Just a doubt though. when should one start producing their own machinery??? I mean should:
1. One develop techs first and then go for them?
2. What should be one's qualification so that we benefit instead of dragging our efficiency to rock bottom?
3. What amount of cash should one pile up before venturing into this high investment venture??
I know it seems silly that i am thinking way ahead but hey, isn't it wise to plan and chart out projections??
By the time you can afford to produce machines your qualification should be able to sustain the min size factory.
You'll need enough cash to build the factory, supply it, equip it and cover ~5 updates without income or any savings from it.
It is wise to at least have tech 2 available to you before starting production. Q1 equipment is readily and cheaply available so you need to produce tech 2 required quality (2.3) before it is worthwhile.
There are a few players who produce CNC machines with tech 1 but final quality is only 1.3 and the cost is significantly higher than q1 from independant.
5.02.2010, 14:43
as Fractal said, it won't be worthwhile producing Q1 equipment. unlimited supplier does that quite cheaply.
final quality of product - in this case machine, depends on quality of supplies as well as technology of the factory.
even with a factory of T2 for steel (which supplies your machine factory), with Q1 raw materials, you won't get better than Q2. it will be more like 1.x.
with Q1.x steel, your T2 machine factory again won't make better than Q1.x machines.
i have a Tech 5 gold jewellery using Q1 gold from the independent supplier. end product is only 2.85 with the factory at 100% efficiency.
so yes, one day when i have enough virts/points, i'd love to buy a mine or 6 so i could get some steady good quality raw materials.
don't mean to discourage you, and planning ahead is very wise
6.02.2010, 14:48
thanks a lot ccm_tsang, VLLord, Fractal. Are you all business consultants in real life??? Your advices and constructive criticism have helped me a lot in understanding the game and its dynamics.
One question I am pondering over though, what should be one's qualification especially when one goes into metallurgical operations, cause I have seen that besides being capital intensive, it is also manpower intensive.and since manpower is involved, there comes management? So what should be the minimum level of managment for a player to venture in this area and get a good dough in return??
6.02.2010, 15:15
ccm_tsang
i have a Tech 5 gold jewellery using Q1 gold from the independent supplier. end product is only 2.85 with the factory at 100% efficiency.
Hi ccm_tsang! Can i ask what the quality of machines equipped there is?
Doesn't anyone know how the final quality of a product depends on the quality of machines?
For example, iron ore mining - max quality of mined materials 5.00 - Tech 2 - quality of mining equipment 1.30 ----
what will the final quality of iron ore be?
If equipment is of a very low quality it will reduce enterprise efficiency so much that you get no benefit from higher tech levels.
From memory you need at least 75-80% of required equipment quality. If this is correct it means the iron ore in your example will have a quality of 1.
In a jewelery factory with tech 7 using independant supplies, final quality is a little under 4. Looking at ccm_tsang's info as well I'm guessing tech level counts for roughly half (55ish%) of final quality, so materials would make up the other half.
lon_wolf19 - Metallurgy factories have high costs which makes it virtually impossible to be competitive with fractional use.
Not long after I started on Mary realm I had trouble getting reasonably priced steel so I built my own steel factory. I added enough equipment and staff to satisfy my needs but soon found my costs were higher than other suppliers sale price.
Unless you have research or mines, or can afford to take a loss on it, I would stay away from metallurgy for awhile. As long as there is steel available for ~500 or less you won't really gain anything by producing yourself (you can make it for less but you'll likely be better off if you use your production qualification for other things).
6.02.2010, 17:34
Last time edited : 6.02.2010, 17:37
lon_wolf19
Are you all business consultants in real life??? Your advices and constructive criticism have helped me a lot in understanding the game and its dynamics.
i used to be an occupational therapist. now working as a hospital software consultant - and yes, try to help with client's business process. but nothing to do with real business! i have found the forum to be most instructive, especially when i was struggling in the beginning. some players have consistently and generously shared their experience and insight, and i've found their advice invaluable. do try to troll through the other posts. there are lots of gems hiding.
lon_wolf19
what should be one's qualification ... there comes management? So what should be the minimum level of managment for a player to venture in this area and get a good dough in return??
qualification, since the efficiency reform, governs almost everything. when the efficiency reform first hit, most players had problems with management qualification. some of us will again when the snowman completely melts.
as for actual requirement for qualification, will refer you to VLLord's instructive post
D0M1NAT0R
Hi ccm_tsang! Can i ask what the quality of machines equipped there is?
Doesn't anyone know how the final quality of a product depends on the quality of machines?
For example, iron ore mining - max quality of mined materials 5.00 - Tech 2 - quality of mining equipment 1.30 ----
what will the final quality of iron ore be?
equipment required for tech 5 = 6.79. factory in question actually has 8.57 coz i'm getting ready for an upgrade.
for end product quality, VLLord and Fractal have referred to if you can read Russian, all is well. otherwise you'll need to use google translate. more examples of generous helpful players.
7.02.2010, 03:10
Thanks ccm_tsang. I tried it but it seems it doesn't take into calculation machines quality.
show the same final quality of iron ore regardless the mining equipment quality 1 or 2.30...
On Lien realm my mine has tech 2 with quality 1 equipment. Equipment quality is only 19% which reduces enterprise efficiency to the same. Maximal quality of minerals is 4.5 and output quality is 1.00.
Less than 100% efficiency reduces output quality and 19% is well below what is needed to even get 1.01.
I doubt 1.3 quality equipment will give you the extra efficiency needed either.
7.02.2010, 11:39
Last time edited : 7.02.2010, 11:41
Thanks Fractal!
So 1) to produce mining equipment of quality >1.00 we need steel of quality >1.00
2) to produce steel of quality >1.00 we need iron ore of quality >1.00
3) to produce iron ore of quality >1.00 we need mining equipment of quality >1.00
4) see 1)
Your advices and constructive criticism have helped me a lot in understanding the game and its dynamics.
