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List of forums -> Main forum of the online business game "Virtonomics" -> Securities Trading: is is feasible?

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Topic created : 23.02.2018, 19:57

manny4life
Fourteen years with Virtonomics Weihnachtsmann Vietnam retail leader Singapore retail leader Mayor Mayor
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Just a suggestion:
 
Other than bonds, which aren't really a SAFE bet, have the administrators ever thought about "Stock, ETF or Commodity" Trading. Kinda like adding more spice to the game. Kinda how you have a Corporation, but instead, a Virto Trading Platform where companies would meet a certain criteria to be listed, kinda like how the NYSE or NASDAQ works.
 
The other suggestions is, when a company goes bankrupt, after the post-bankruptcy period has elapsed, I believe 22 turns or so, I would suggest the players company's be auctioned in order for some to recoup their losses in terms of bonds. Again, I don't know if these topics have been discussed in the past, just something to think about.    

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1.06.2018, 10:03

Gram123
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I completely agree that when a company does not repay its bonds the bonds holders should be able to file for bankruptcy of the company. If the company does not redeem its bonds the asset of the company should be forfeit to the bond holders, or be force sold and the money returned to the bond holders.
 
I acknowledge that the game administrators may not want premium content to be distributed by bankruptcy but with or without premium content, I think this would also make the bonds a more safe bet for investors. 
 

1.06.2018, 10:50

JustNash
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this is all true. On the other hand: programming time is scarce. Given the low interest in issuing bonds, we shouldn't expect them to put in much more effort there. Given the current game design, it really escapes me why there would be much need for bonds.
 
As for securities trading: sure, it has been brought up plenty of times. So it's good to write a little reminder as the one above. Practically, it would work best imo if an extra dimension was created besides the company: the individual! Currently, only my company (Premium Brands) can amass assets. What if I as a player could also do this? I could have my company pay me dividends. I could issue company stock to sell on the market. I could speculate on other companies' stock price...
 
For me, this would be a great asset to the game. At the same time: this is irreversible. What if there turn out to be unwanted side effects nobody thought of in advance? 
 

15.09.2018, 18:39

manny4life
Fourteen years with Virtonomics Weihnachtsmann Vietnam retail leader Singapore retail leader Mayor Mayor
Four years with Virtonomics
Fourteen years with Virtonomics
l:
manny4life Incorporated
m:
Manny4life Ltd.
 
Gram123
I completely agree that when a company does not repay its bonds the bonds holders should be able to file for bankruptcy of the company. If the company does not redeem its bonds the asset of the company should be forfeit to the bond holders, or be force sold and the money returned to the bond holders.
 
I acknowledge that the game administrators may not want premium content to be distributed by bankruptcy but with or without premium content, I think this would also make the bonds a more safe bet for investors.

Sorry for the late response, I did not play this game for almost two months. I completely agree that bondholders should be able to recoup some of their investment, although in the real world, these are unsecured creditors so I understand that they may not have complete authority to force sale of asset. Although for me, I am very cautious when purchasing bonds. 
 

16.09.2018, 05:16

Last time edited : 16.09.2018, 08:40

manny4life
Fourteen years with Virtonomics Weihnachtsmann Vietnam retail leader Singapore retail leader Mayor Mayor
Four years with Virtonomics
Fourteen years with Virtonomics
l:
manny4life Incorporated
m:
Manny4life Ltd.
 
JustNash
this is all true. On the other hand: programming time is scarce. Given the low interest in issuing bonds, we shouldn't expect them to put in much more effort there. Given the current game design, it really escapes me why there would be much need for bonds.
 
As for securities trading: sure, it has been brought up plenty of times. So it's good to write a little reminder as the one above. Practically, it would work best imo if an extra dimension was created besides the company: the individual! Currently, only my company (Premium Brands) can amass assets. What if I as a player could also do this? I could have my company pay me dividends. I could issue company stock to sell on the market. I could speculate on other companies' stock price...
 
For me, this would be a great asset to the game. At the same time: this is irreversible. What if there turn out to be unwanted side effects nobody thought of in advance?

I'm not advocating for bond issuance, in fact, I would prefer a situation where companies can obtain secured/unsecured loans or lines of credits –  this is what's obtainable in real world finance. Having said that, as for programming time being scarce, I am certain there are ways to compensate for time such as, if you're an issuer of financial products, you pay something like 5 points. Just similar to the way you purchase mines, etc. I want to believe the admin knows precisely what and how to monetize this feature.
 
Although you laid out some very valid points but please permit me to say that I think you have the whole idea about stock all wrong. In reality, when a company attempts to go public, there's a lot of financial scrutiny, structuring & regulatory compliance that must be in place prior to the pre-IPO process. For the most part, the game already addresses some, not all of the structuring and compliance anyway.
 
The reason why I said that I think you have the idea about stock all wrong is because a stock is traded on an exchange, which fluctuates based on market, political or fiscal forces but primarily due to market forces for which one of the component you addressed as [Speculation].
 
Another misconception is that a stock is dependent on the asset; this is not entirely true, in fact, this is false notion to an extent. There are companies that have billions under asset and underperforming for instance GE, while there are companies with little to no asset with massive valuation, good example is Uber. The key to stock is pricing and valuation which is dependent on the Company’s Market Cap.
 
Market Cap = Outstanding Shares x Share price [what the market participant is willing to pay]
 
So to buttress my point by answering your questions:
 
a. [What if I as a player could also do this? I could have my company pay me dividends]
Answer: Management of Companies in real world often decide to pay dividends [profit], but dividend depends on the company’s financial performance - Adjusted EBITDA. So therefore, if you have a negative EBITDA, sorry you cannot pay dividends on something you don't have. If your company made $100 and spent $120, that's a negative EBITDA. How would you pay dividend when you made a loss? I mean this is a simple as ABC. And if you did have a positive EBITDA and after , then the dividends would be divided over the outstanding shares = Earnings Per Share [EPS]. So should you decide to pay dividends, you'd pay the shareholders including yourself.
 
b. [I could issue company stock to sell on the market. I could speculate on other companies' stock price...]
Answer: Just because you issued a stock doesn't mean that I will buy it. If it doesn’t make sense, then it sure doesn’t, no two ways about it. Real life investors weigh into considerations certain factors when purchasing a stock which includes amongst other things, the company’s assets,  liabilities and free cash flow including other pricing ratios.
 
For instance, I see many companies on this gaming platform saddled with a lot of debt, their balance sheet if it were in the real world looks a hot mess, their debt to asset/equity ratio is beyond the maximum allowable ratio of .75 [depending on the industry], do you think if one of these companies issued a stock at equal or greater than what their worth is, do you think I would buy into it? Really?
 
My point being, you can issue stock for all I care, but if you don’t have the appropriate balance sheet to back it up, your stock is just as much as worthless as GE in real life. Speaking about speculating about other companies stock, the answer is – YOU CAN’T. You and your company are nothing but market participants and thus, cannot singlehandedly speculate a company’s stock price.
 
In a nutshell, a stock market feature would be interesting if implemented correctly. 
 

List of forums -> Main forum of the online business game "Virtonomics"-> Securities Trading: is is feasible?

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