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List of forums -> Free communication (everything except serious game talk) -> Migrant crysis: what is your opinion?

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Topic:

Topic created : 4.09.2015, 21:55

Last time edited : 5.09.2015, 20:30

Sulaco
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Hi
Nowdays there is a lot of talking about the migrant crysis in Europe.
I am a Hungarian, so I am personally involved in this, but I would like to know what you, others think.
Please feel free to share your opinion, or ask questions.   

Message list:  

5.06.2016, 07:48

marshalney
 
ackerman posted "And btw, to me no-one IS illegal. One might be in a country without a official permission, but he still is a human being and sould be treated like this and not called being illegal."
 
If you're breaking the law, the action is termed illegal.  PC semantics are bs.  Call em what you want, it doesn't chane that fact.  Might as well call rapists "Undocumented sexual therapists.
 
Tee wrote "Suppose I was a 22 year old refugee, living in a camp in Turkey for more than two years. As long as the war continues there is no future for me. I want to live, work, marry, have kids and make fun. That is not gonna happen if I stay in the refugee camp. I will probably risk my life and leave for Europe".  I probably would too.  I'm in the US, and if I have no income, and a family to support, I would probably turn to robbing to support them.  Understandable from my point of view, but perhaps not to society.
 
Thought experiments are all nice and make you feel warm and fuzzy.  But some of us have to live in the real world.  Let the refugees stay in their country of origin.  Maybe give them some help to fix the problem.  But it is their problem.  Spreading it to every other country on the globe isn't going to solve it. 
 

5.06.2016, 15:08

mort100
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marshalney
Let the refugees stay in their country of origin.  Maybe give them some help to fix the problem.  But it is their problem.  Spreading it to every other country on the globe isn't going to solve it.

I totally disagree; giving shelter to refugees will indeed solve their biggest problem. Of course it won't stop the war and it cost money to welcome refugees, but at least the people that come won't be killed. Spreading the refugees to different countries won't spread the war. 
 

5.06.2016, 20:12

Wonson
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Mort, I really wanted to stop discussing this. But...
 
What about United States and Mexican illegals? Mexico is a safe country. I won't go into details because it's well documented in English over the web.
 
What about Russia and three million migrants in Russia? Those who gather in Moscow and shout they cannot tolerate Russians's presence in Moscow and they must leave? Kyrgizstan, Uzbekistan, etc are not war-zones. You might have already heard about hostile line-up in Russia, especially in Moscow universities.
 
What about Iran and four million migrants from Afghanistan only in the last year? (this one you could not know) Afghanistan is somehow a civil-war state, but taking over Afghanistan and eliminating Taliban only takes a week with 2.2 millions of sponger military men, if CIA does not intervene. That would be a lot cheaper than hosting 20% of Afghanistan's population forever. Furthermore, around one month ago an official whined to newspapers that he has orders to move Aghanians to the top of the list of job-seekers. Just imagine what a burden on our weak economy is 4 millions of not-very-trustworthy people with not-very-pleasant tribal behaviours of which 2.5 millions are sucking on benefit. We already had enough of all sort of scroungers and thieves.
 
We all know more or less about Europe. I don't know much about other places but how comes all these countries have reached the conclusion that they should take millions of foreigners at the same time? Please enlighten me. 
 

27.07.2016, 09:23

dmz
Four years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
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First i've only read the first page but the last page seems to have some of the posts from the first page for some odd reason.  Is this a bug?  but to stay on topic i've seen a general consensus that the problem would be best solved by dealing with the source of the issue.  and i myself agree.  i'm an IT nut that's currently working on what i believe to be a solution...  not to the war but to poverty entirely.  a solution that would tare down the need for people to work for a living.  you could have all the free time you want and take care of yourself without the help of anyone.  so i'm asking for opinions.  assuming this pipe dream works would it be beneficial to mankind for not only situations like this but to the well being of everyone in general...  or would it cause more harm then good.  the end goal is to allow anyone to produce whatever they wanted with ease.  to create whatever they wanted out of nearly nothing.  though i don't think people will accept this easily as all everyone's known is society and work.  any feedback or questions is welcome.  and sorry for asking a question inside a question.  but i'm having a hard time finding the right places to ask this. 
 

29.07.2016, 11:42

Wonson
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i can remember an intelligent man like B. Russel said the same thing 100 years ago and if i remember correctly, the name of the book was "proposed roads to freedom". however, another intelligent man, Igor Shafarevich, also a renowned mathematician, proves this will lead nowhere. his book "The Socialist Phenomenon" is available on the internet, and if you drop the hot Christian parts, it's an intelligent book imo.
 
I will be glad to know about your method, anything not already refuted by Shafarevich. 
IT'S JUST BUSINESS!
 

30.07.2016, 10:13

dmz
Four years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
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actually i'm only in the theorizing stage as of now.  but i can't help but think that if i got a community on it then it would work for sure.  basically there's just two things that i'm theorizing as of now.  and they sound far fetched to most.
 
first thing is what i would call a "mini universal factory".  i plan on using robotics mixed with some sort of mechanical drill.  the idea is that you could manufacture nearly anything you wanted including more of these factories.  admittedly building bigger things would be a challenge but a temporary solution would be to use a trick that the Japanese used to make their furniture.  from what i hear they have very sturdy furniture because they somehow snap the pieces together in hinge like cavities inside the wood itself.  if this is true why can't it be applied to plastics/metals?  even if not there's got to be a way to get robotics to cut something bigger then themselves if they could move around on high friction wheels(for accuracy).
 
Some tech to note.  You can make silicone by burning sand with magnesium.  part of me wonders if this could be used to manufacture solar panels cheaply(maybe reduced quality).  or at the very least help make motherboards.  and the component in sand used for this is also found in clay if i remember correctly.  not really sure on that.  also it's extremely cheep and easy to build a greenhouse if you just use pbc piping and some plastic to put over it instead of glass.  keeps the weeds out.  also it's very easy and cheep to automate a farm as long as you can keep the weeds out.
 
the second thing that's more of a pipe dream is the idea of using an atom smasher to produce any atomic structure you want by smashing two atoms together.  that way expensive materials could be produced in one's own back yard.  this i have no idea how it would work but the two limiting factors i can think of is the amount of energy required and that it might need an atomic structure that's way bigger than the desired atom.
 
the second thing i'm not sure about but the first idea i know would work.  if you get a community behind it then it's just as easy as copying software down and having the necessary materials in order to make whatever you wanted.  i'm not an expert but from what i've researched about making pcb's i have no doubt in my mind that this is not only doable but cheep enough to give to third world countries and let them build their own copies.  people could just upload their own files to the internet when they have figured out how to manufacture something.  the only drawbacks would be the need for "some" resources to be transported and that these things wouldn't be as fast as a specialized factory...  which the speed really isn't important.  if it is then just build another.  i can see this thing being usable in every location outside of very highly populated areas such as cities.  everyone else who has a yard could in theory have one spare made from their friends so they can start making their own stuff.
 
also thanks for the book names i'll have to get the copies.
 
i really wonder why no one's tried doing this.  and i still have yet to get people to take me seriously. 
 

30.07.2016, 11:10

dmz
Four years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
Four years with Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
 
personally i don't think it's the responsibility of a country to take in refuges.  not even migrants if they don't want too.  just like it's not the responsibility of someone to open their home to a homeless person.  i'm not talking about morals but rather you can't EXPECT someone to spend their resources helping you just because you've suffered.  that does not entitle you to anything.  people are known to take but rarely have respect for anyone else when they are falling on hard times.  it shows true character when someone is suffering.  personally i think instead of giving all of our wealth away and wasting our time letting only business research (making NOTHING useful themselves) we should spend more money on gov sponsored research.  the cold war was a golden age for tech development from what i hear.  companies only want to research when their's profit.  and  doubt that new important tech will revolve around profit. 
 

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