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Topic:
  

Topic created : 13.05.2017, 11:16

Last time edited : 2.06.2017, 23:33
XDCD
Five years with Virtonomics
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Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
m:
XDCD Incorporated
 
Noticed someone scamming with bonds, can't find a way to report them so I'll just post it here.
 
Goku18 issued 14239 'medium term' bonds which have been fully bought by players.
He seems to have given all of his assets and cash to Zorgborg on the turn of 13-05-2017.
 
* Zorgborg's turnover on 13-05-2017 is equal to the loss of cash of Goku18 this turn plus he now owns all of Goku18's expensive assets.
 
Goku18 - https://virtonomics.com/mary/main/user/view/1205591
Zorgborg - https://virtonomics.com/mary/main/user/view/1164968
 
Sorry to anyone who bought his bonds, looks like he won't be paying it back Not so
 
Hope the admins won't let this behavior go unpunished.
 
EDIT: 16-05-2017 - Cash and most assets seem to be transferred from zorgborg to another account.
EDIT: 02-06-2017 - Still no action has been taken by Diska (admin), I am very disappointed in the moderation of this game.   

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13.05.2017, 14:51

Last time edited : 13.05.2017, 14:55
gamerz300
Masking mustache Panda Panda Mandarin duck Mandarin duck Honey Barrel Merit for the Uzbekistan of level I Seven years with Virtonomics
One year with Virtonomics
Seven years with Virtonomics
m:
Egg-Roll International
 
PM diska make that b!tch pay.
 
However it seems that too is a clone... So maybe patience and time will revile the true scammer.
 
The game should record ip addresses which could reveal the user but there could be other ways too 
 

14.05.2017, 01:13

Last time edited : 14.05.2017, 01:44
FLP01
Six years with Virtonomics
Six years with Virtonomics
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l:
Providence Limited
n:
Providence Limited
m:
Providence Limited
 
1) I agree with what XDCD said, I thought that goku18 was behaving very strangely, the company fluctuating wildly in the turnover and asset listings, I was very confused. Unfortunately, I bought $1B worth of bonds from them, so that won't be coming back. Not so
 
2) This is a perfect example of why we seriously need to reform the bonds system so newer players can have safe access to much needed capital in the early days (there is always the risk that they may not be able to pay them back and default because they don't understand the system) and so intermediate players don't get screwed over by clones.
 
A 'Bank of Virtonomics' idea has been discussed in the past by players, maybe a central game body could issue bonds.
https://virtonomics.com/mary/forum/forum_new/16/topic/106244/view 
 

14.05.2017, 01:33
Gorchilo
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n:
ZZZ
 
First rule of investing "Never put all your eggs in one basket" 
 

14.05.2017, 01:38

Last time edited : 14.05.2017, 01:46
FLP01
Six years with Virtonomics
Six years with Virtonomics
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l:
Providence Limited
n:
Providence Limited
m:
Providence Limited
 
Investing $1B of my money (not all of my money), doesn't count as 'putting all my eggs in one basket'. I was curious to try out the bonds system, goku18 was the ONLY person issuing bonds at that time and the price seemed reasonable, I could afford it, so I thought 'why not'. This is just a bad system that needs changing. 
 

14.05.2017, 16:22

Last time edited : 14.05.2017, 16:28
XDCD
Five years with Virtonomics
Japan soccer ball Swedish profile Swedish profile Swedish profile Swedish profile Swedish standard Ingvar Kamprad Order Jubilee Ten
Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Seven years with Virtonomics Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination of Consumer Goods Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
m:
XDCD Incorporated
 
gamerz300
PM diska make that b!tch pay.
 
However it seems that too is a clone... So maybe patience and time will revile the true scammer.
 
The game should record ip addresses which could reveal the user but there could be other ways too

Alright thanks, send Diska a PM about it.
And yeah it does look like a clone. Hope he can track down the scammer Well
 
--
FLP01, current bond system is fine, the risk of players going bankrupt is normal (this differs from scammers of course). 
 

14.05.2017, 17:48.     Subject: Bonds System

Last time edited : 14.05.2017, 17:54
FLP01
Six years with Virtonomics
Six years with Virtonomics
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l:
Providence Limited
n:
Providence Limited
m:
Providence Limited
 
XDCD
FLP01, current bond system is fine, the risk of players going bankrupt is normal (this differs from scammers of course).

How can you say that when players are getting scammed by clones. It's clearly not fine.
 
Also, I seem to remember you talking differently about bonds only not too long ago:
 
XDCD
Bonds aren't a good option for new players, they are way too limited. For new players with assets of a few million its hardly worth it and currently too risky for new players in my opinion. They definitely need some extra work
XDCD
Bonds just can't help a new player, you start with ~$5M? assets which means the bonds you could sell aren't going to help you much. Plus in my opinion the current state of bonds aren't very friendly to use for most players because of the set conditions and limitations.
XDCD
Part of the problem is that to get 5B from bonds you would be required to have assets worth 2.5B and be positieve you will have the 5B in full to return it after ~52 turns (partial payments is not an option). If you can't pay the bond back in time you can't issue new bonds either, because you have an unpaid bond or because you're over your limit.
XDCD
Bonds are always 'risky' and without much collateral, thus more expensive for the company/country issuing them. - Part of the reason why loans and banks would be a great addition.

So what is it then?
 
I think that the bond system definitely needs changing, especially when people are whining about 'how the game isn't the same it used to be' and that it's 'not friendly to new players' Come on 
 

14.05.2017, 17:53
FLP01
Six years with Virtonomics
Six years with Virtonomics
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l:
Providence Limited
n:
Providence Limited
m:
Providence Limited
 
First time I've ever down-voted someone too. Shame 
 

14.05.2017, 18:11
Gorchilo
Jubilee Ten Jubilee Ten The winner of the Leaders Contest in the "Fuel Rivers" nomination Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination Week of perfect Service Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Nation's Health Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination of Consumer Goods Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Raw Material Base
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics Two years with Virtonomics
One year with Virtonomics
Mathematic teacher Ladybug Jubilee Ten Bronze Ten Silver Ten The tender collider, IV-VI places World Cuisines, VII-XV places World Cuisines, IV-Vi places
Shagreen, VII-XV places The winner of the Industry Competition in the "Virtostandard of fuel" nomination The winner of the Leaders Contest in the "Fuel Rivers" nomination Winner of the Industry Competition in the 'Government procurement' nomination Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination Week of perfect Service Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Nation's Health The winner of the Industry Competition The winner in the nomination Your Way to success of the Industry Competition
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n:
ZZZ
 
FLP01 if you decide to spend 1B on bonds and you buy all bonds from 1 player then you are put all your eggs in 1 basket Well
 
Point is if you buy all bonds from 1 player if he bankrupt or if he is scammer you will lose all your money (this is not related that you spend all your money on bonds ), but if you buy bonds from 10 players 100mil X 10 then if 1 bankrupt you have other 9 ;) 
 

14.05.2017, 18:16
FLP01
Six years with Virtonomics
Six years with Virtonomics
Merit for the Italy of level III Founder of Victoria (CS) Founder of Seychelles Virtonomics Philanthropist 3rd class Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Seven years with Virtonomics The winner of the Best trade mark nomination of the Industry Competition
l:
Providence Limited
n:
Providence Limited
m:
Providence Limited
 
Well fair point Gorchilo and I appreciate what you said, but I think the context of that phrase is if you had the choice (which I didn't) and still decided to invest everything in one thing 
 

14.05.2017, 18:26

Last time edited : 14.05.2017, 18:28
XDCD
Five years with Virtonomics
Japan soccer ball Swedish profile Swedish profile Swedish profile Swedish profile Swedish standard Ingvar Kamprad Order Jubilee Ten
Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Seven years with Virtonomics Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination of Consumer Goods Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
m:
XDCD Incorporated
 
FLP01
XDCD
FLP01, current bond system is fine, the risk of players going bankrupt is normal (this differs from scammers of course).

How can you say that when players are getting scammed by clones. It's clearly not fine.
 
Also, I seem to remember you talking differently about bonds only not too long ago:
 
XDCD
Bonds aren't a good option for new players, they are way too limited. For new players with assets of a few million its hardly worth it and currently too risky for new players in my opinion. They definitely need some extra work
XDCD
Bonds just can't help a new player, you start with ~$5M? assets which means the bonds you could sell aren't going to help you much. Plus in my opinion the current state of bonds aren't very friendly to use for most players because of the set conditions and limitations.
XDCD
Part of the problem is that to get 5B from bonds you would be required to have assets worth 2.5B and be positieve you will have the 5B in full to return it after ~52 turns (partial payments is not an option). If you can't pay the bond back in time you can't issue new bonds either, because you have an unpaid bond or because you're over your limit.
XDCD
Bonds are always 'risky' and without much collateral, thus more expensive for the company/country issuing them. - Part of the reason why loans and banks would be a great addition.

So what is it then?
 
I think that the bond system definitely needs changing, especially when people are whining about 'how the game isn't the same it used to be' and that it's 'not friendly to new players' Come on

Pretty sure I clearly state in every one of those messages that I think bonds aren't great options for new players. Much like in the real world where you won't see many (if any) small firms issuing bonds. Bonds are always limited and are barely comparable to a bank loan.
A bank is a completely different system and could be used in addition to bonds but never replace them. However, a central bank issuing bonds as you suggest is complete nonsense.
 
People will always be able to scam in some form or another using bonds or loans. IRL you would have a legal system dealing with this, here we have admins - this is the reason I reported the scam, not to 'complain' about bonds.
 
FLP01
First time I've ever down-voted someone too. Shame

I would appreciate if you took the time to read before making negative remarks next time. Well 
 

14.05.2017, 18:40
FLP01
Six years with Virtonomics
Six years with Virtonomics
Merit for the Italy of level III Founder of Victoria (CS) Founder of Seychelles Virtonomics Philanthropist 3rd class Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Seven years with Virtonomics The winner of the Best trade mark nomination of the Industry Competition
l:
Providence Limited
n:
Providence Limited
m:
Providence Limited
 
I did take the time to read what you wrote before I quoted it, I didn't do it on a impulse. You can't make statements in one place and then make contradictory statements in another place regardless of context. Bonds are 'bad for new players' but 'the current bond system is fine'. I thought that the quotes would speak for themselves as I wasn't sure if I should call you out for being a hypocrite. 
 

14.05.2017, 18:49
Gorchilo
Jubilee Ten Jubilee Ten The winner of the Leaders Contest in the "Fuel Rivers" nomination Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination Week of perfect Service Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Nation's Health Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination of Consumer Goods Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Raw Material Base
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics Two years with Virtonomics
One year with Virtonomics
Mathematic teacher Ladybug Jubilee Ten Bronze Ten Silver Ten The tender collider, IV-VI places World Cuisines, VII-XV places World Cuisines, IV-Vi places
Shagreen, VII-XV places The winner of the Industry Competition in the "Virtostandard of fuel" nomination The winner of the Leaders Contest in the "Fuel Rivers" nomination Winner of the Industry Competition in the 'Government procurement' nomination Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination Week of perfect Service Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Nation's Health The winner of the Industry Competition The winner in the nomination Your Way to success of the Industry Competition
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n:
ZZZ
 
FLP01 bonds are last thing to make profit in this game .. 
 

14.05.2017, 18:50

Last time edited : 14.05.2017, 18:56
XDCD
Five years with Virtonomics
Japan soccer ball Swedish profile Swedish profile Swedish profile Swedish profile Swedish standard Ingvar Kamprad Order Jubilee Ten
Shagreen, VII-XV places Shagreen, VII-XV places Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Seven years with Virtonomics Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination of Consumer Goods Winner of the Leaders Contest in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination "Knowledge is power!" Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination Consumer Goods Winner of the Contest for Managers in the nomination The Standard of Virtonomics
m:
XDCD Incorporated
 
FLP01
I did take the time to read what you wrote before I quoted it, I didn't do it on a impulse. You can't make statements in one place and then make contradictory statements in another place regardless of context. Bonds are 'bad for new players' but 'the current bond system is fine'. I thought that the quotes would speak for themselves as I wasn't sure if I should call you out for being a hypocrite.

How are those statements in any way contradictory? If you don't know the difference between bonds and loans please do a google search.
Bonds are used by big firms and governments for long term investments - This is why they are fine for big players.
Loans are often used to grow your business or make short(er) term investments - smaller firms usually prefer a loan (which is different than a bond).
 
In other words - bonds work fine as they do. However a small player doesn't benefit much from them (as intended).
 
http://www.differencebetween.net/business/economics-business/difference-between-bond-and-loan/ ...  
 

14.05.2017, 18:52
FLP01
Six years with Virtonomics
Six years with Virtonomics
Merit for the Italy of level III Founder of Victoria (CS) Founder of Seychelles Virtonomics Philanthropist 3rd class Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Seven years with Virtonomics The winner of the Best trade mark nomination of the Industry Competition
l:
Providence Limited
n:
Providence Limited
m:
Providence Limited
 
I wouldn't rely on bonds to make profits, the main part of my business does that. I just see that this part of the game (financials) could do with some improvements to optimise it for players and has a lot of potential. 
 

14.05.2017, 18:56

Last time edited : 14.05.2017, 19:04
FLP01
Six years with Virtonomics
Six years with Virtonomics
Merit for the Italy of level III Founder of Victoria (CS) Founder of Seychelles Virtonomics Philanthropist 3rd class Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Platinum sponsor of the Contest for Tycoons Seven years with Virtonomics The winner of the Best trade mark nomination of the Industry Competition
l:
Providence Limited
n:
Providence Limited
m:
Providence Limited
 
Statement 1:
XDCD
current bond system is fine

Statement 2:
XDCD
Bonds aren't a good option for new players
+ the other quotes
 
(If bonds aren't good for new players, I think that would make them bad as the game should cater for everyone, not just big players and loans don't currently exist as a feature in the game)
 
I think we have found the solution to our problem: Virtonomics Loans! 
 

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